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View Diary: Nadler walks it back (228 comments)

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  •  Yeah, why am I not convinced? nt (11+ / 0-)

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Sun Jun 16, 2013 at 10:21:25 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  because people tend to believe what they want to (20+ / 0-)

      believe.  Confirmation bias.
      The far left and far right both hate government and believe it is an evil entity out to get us, so they leap at any opportunity to believe the worst about that evil entity.

      One the one hand, there are multiple people publicly on record saying that a warrant is required for authorization to listen to phone calls.  On the other hand there's a cryptic statement by Nadler, "That's not what we heard the other day, we heard the opposite.", spun by a far right wing libertarian hack at cnet (responsible far many absurd right wing pieces over the years, including the creation of the "Gore claims he invented the internet" lie).  We don't know verbatim what Nadler heard, don't know whether Nadler understood what he heard, nor do we know from whom he heard it.

      But folks will believe the single unnamed person that told Nadler something he may have misunderstood over multiple named people publicly on record because they want to believe cnet's right wing hack's narrative.

      I T&R'ed Brit's diary, but more and more it seems it was based on an article that was a bit of sensationalist wishful thinking.

      I don't know what Nadler heard, but maybe there was confusion regarding ability vs authorization.  Maybe Nadler asked, "Can an NSA analyst listen to a phone call without a warrant?" and the questionee answered "yes", thinking the question dealt with ability rather than permission.

      Anyway, the headline of the cnet article was clearly sensationalized and not in keeping with the actual exchange between Nadler and Mueller.

      •  One of them (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc, JVolvo
        One the one hand, there are multiple people publicly on record saying that a warrant is required for authorization to listen to phone calls.
        was this guy:

        What are you doing to fight the dangerous and counterproductive error of treating dirtbag terrorist criminals as though they were comic book supervillains? I can't believe we still have to argue this shit, let alone on Daily Kos.

        by happymisanthropy on Sun Jun 16, 2013 at 12:46:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And since Obama = W, actually is WORSE than W (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Onomastic, WB Reeves, gramofsam1

          (that's the meme going around now on this site), then since W lied about a program, we know that Obama's lied too (lied worse actually), despite the fact that in the intervening time, the Congress passed a law that brings the original program into the rule of law, oversight of Congress, and the courts.  There have been 22 hearings on these matters in Congress just from December 2011 to December 2012, yet W lying about his program that had no sanction of law, Congress, or courts is to be equated with whatever goes on today.  Just brilliant analysis!!

          •  Um, unconstitutional programs (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            happymisanthropy, JVolvo

            are unconstitutional with or without unconstitutional court orders and unconstitutional laws.

            Wyden and Udall have stated that Congress has been misled by the Executive Branch about the program, and the author of the Patriot Act said that it doesn't authorize court orders like the one leaked from the FISA Court.

            Don't pretend any of this is constitutional.  Don't pretend there is Congressional oversight.

      •  Yes, people believe what they want (11+ / 0-)

        And lets not pretend that doesn't go both ways.

        Of course the NSA can listen to our phone calls without a specific warrant. If you think they can't then your foolish.

        That isn't even what this was about. We've been told for years that the NSA doesn't spy on Americans. We've been told that again and again and again and now that they admit they spy on Americans we've got folks like you saying there's nothing wrong because they are getting warrants. They've been lying for years and got busted for it, there's no reason to believe that they aren't lying about warrants as well. None at all.

        they want to believe cnet's right wing hack's narrative.
        See, and you give away the game here. CNET has a privacy narrative and has been talking about these issues since Bush was in office. They are far from right wing. But that doesn't fit your narrative. This program was started by Bush and Obama has continued it. It's neither right wing nor left wing, it bipartisan.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Sun Jun 16, 2013 at 12:48:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ability rather than permission? PROBLEM (0+ / 0-)

        Well, uh, that is a problem.  If NSA analysts have the ability to listen to Americans' phone calls, they're going to do it with or without permission.

        There are leaks from NSA analysts about listening to pillow talk from soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan just for kicks.  Look it up.

    •  Because the NSA has been lying... (19+ / 0-)

      at every step. And because they keep trying to scare the American people from a robust, open debate about our civil liberties.

      Because the parts of the program they've admitted to are, themselves, unconstitutional.

      Is this the "least untruthful clarification?"

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