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View Diary: The US is Not Going to Win the War on Edward Snowden (310 comments)

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  •  Which is why Snowden cannot be (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pinto Pony

    permitted to live out his life free from the consequences of his actions. One way or another, he must be punished for breaking his oath (and the law). If not, what reason exists for everyone else with a secret clearance to follow the rules?

    •  How do whistleblowers fit into this scenario? (13+ / 0-)

      If you are protecting the people who employ the NSA (the American people) from the NSA's over-reach into the privacy of all citizens -- how does that legally occur?



      Denial is a drug.

      by Pluto on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 05:14:34 AM PDT

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    •  "Secret clearance" means bupkes nowadays (5+ / 0-)

      Snowden's academic and previous work record are entirely ininspiring. Who the heck ever hired him anyway and why?  They must be passing out "secret clearances" in Crackerjack boxes nowadays

      Happy just to be alive

      by exlrrp on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 05:18:27 AM PDT

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      •  Looks as though (4+ / 0-)

        his brief military career gave him an edge for his NSA/CIA career, which gave him the clearance for his private contractor career.
        What puzzles me is how a guy with such strong anti-surveillance opinions winds up at the CIA.

        •  That's exactly what they get (10+ / 0-)

          for outsourcing every fucking job in sight. And frankly, it serves them right.

          Tell me, d'ya think the United States will learn anything from this particular facet of the story? Hint: smart money would be on the answer starting with the letter "N".

          "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

          by lunachickie on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 06:30:36 AM PDT

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        •  Definitely worth pondering (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pluto

          Because people with anti-surveillance and pro-transparency opinions work for the secret government agencies fairly often.

        •  They need so many people to staff these massive (5+ / 0-)

          programs, they can't be all that picky.

          Plus, "idealism" is a funny thing.  A person could be hired with all the best intentions of protecting and serving his/her nation.

          Yet, once thoroughly ensconced in the agency, seeing what is actually being done (massive spying with little to no results*), the idealism of serving the nation is in a funny place:

          Does serving the nation mean keeping your mouth shut and perpetuating abuses? Or

          Does serving the nation mean staying loyal to the ideals of the US Constitution and what the nation is supposed to stand for?

          Someone could easily pass all the ideological reviews for loyalty to the nation and still, later, think that what agencies are doing is intensely disloyal.

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 10:55:54 AM PDT

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          •  That does make sense, although I wasn't thinking (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            YucatanMan

            in terms of loyalty, more in terms of personality compatibility.

            •  I think a rigid do-as-you're-told-and-don't-think (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gramofsam1, Pluto

              personality would absolutely not leak any of this.

              However, intelligence work requires creativity, out-of-the-box thinking, a degree of independence, and strong personal motivations in order to be successful at doing the work.

              The fact that people will think on their own is both required and a danger to intelligence work.  

              Sure there are many with enough do-as you're-told traits. But they cannot all be like that if an agency is to be successful at the purpose of intelligence work.

              "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

              by YucatanMan on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 11:22:10 AM PDT

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            •  P.S. Once upon-a-time, I had a (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Garrett, gramofsam1

              top secret security clearance.  A long time ago.  So, I have a bit of an idea about how this works.

              The personality types of others holding the clearances varied a LOT.  Basically, at least then, it meant that you did not have massive debt, had been born and raised in the USA (not subject to commie thinking which would have required whole other levels of reviews), did not have a criminal record, etc. It meant that you had a traceable background.  That your family wasn't mafia or drug gangs, etc.

              The review wasn't cursory, but it wasn't exactly hard to get clearance.

              "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

              by YucatanMan on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 11:26:43 AM PDT

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      •  Happened during the Bush years . . . (0+ / 0-)

        lower standards.

    •  Yes indeed, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens

      nothing personal of course. It's just "business".
      You know just like the other criminal organizations that operate with omerta - er strike that -oaths and secrets.

      "When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two." - Nisargadatta Maharaj.

      by mkor7 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 07:21:37 AM PDT

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    •  Why in the world would you say that? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, YucatanMan, Pluto

      This country is chock full of organized criminals as well as their pet criminals acting as agents in government. Usually to secure freedom of criminal activities, immunity from the law, or act as conduits for draining the Treasury into the pockets of organized criminals.

      They almost never go to jail, never meet judgment or punishment. And all the pet criminals in government have broken the oath they took to get there. No big deal in what basically amounts to a society owned and operated by organized crime.

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