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View Diary: We Progressives Are Making a Mistake by Supporting the Traitor Snowden (260 comments)

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  •  Glad you don't give (14+ / 0-)

    a shit about the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. I do. Last I checked, no poll of Americans too scared or stupid to know what they're giving away trumped the Bill of Rights.

    "I am not for a return to that definition of Liberty under which for many years a free people were being gradually regimented into the service of the privileged few." Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1934

    by fenway49 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 08:28:32 AM PDT

    •  people need to educate themselves (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Deep Texan, virginislandsguy

      you have no 4th amendment rights to your metadata

      Been that way for a long time

      In the time that I have been given,
      I am what I am

      by duhban on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 08:38:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A decision (3+ / 0-)

        made by a conservative Supreme Court with which I strongly disagree. Legal questions aside, the Fourth Amendment and the entire Bill of Rights stand for a principle of freedom from this kind of intrusion. There's no requirement that the feds go to the exact limit allowed by the courts' interpretation at all times. It's horrific policy and, quite frankly, chilling. The metadata tells nearly as much as the content, and we should be revisiting this policy.

        "I am not for a return to that definition of Liberty under which for many years a free people were being gradually regimented into the service of the privileged few." Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1934

        by fenway49 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 09:03:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Also add (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Shotput8, milkbone, Lost and Found

          that the NSA did not, in fact, invoke the argument that collecting metadata is not a search at all. It sought a warrant from the FISA court, which warrant was issued by that rubber stamp without a whit of probable cause with respect to the millions and millions of people implicated by it. The Fourth Amendment is quite clear that warrants shall not issue without probable cause. Have we now gone from "Driving While Black" to "Being a Human Being in an 'Age of Terror'?"

          "I am not for a return to that definition of Liberty under which for many years a free people were being gradually regimented into the service of the privileged few." Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1934

          by fenway49 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 09:07:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  well that's nice (0+ / 0-)

          but SCOTUS said otherwise which means legally the 4th doesn't apply.

          You can reject that all you want that's just reality for now.

          In the time that I have been given,
          I am what I am

          by duhban on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 10:32:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No (0+ / 0-)

            A sharply divided SCOTUS said, in a single 35-year-old case, that it was OK in the situation of ONE person for whom there basically would have been probable cause anyway. There has never been a decision saying the metadata for tens of millions of entirely innocent people - virtually every American - can be handed over to the NSA, not in the context of a specific investigation of a specific already-committed act, but in the name of some vague standard of "national security."

            None of which addresses the fact that the government can stop short of what a right-wing SCOTUS might let it get away with.

            "I am not for a return to that definition of Liberty under which for many years a free people were being gradually regimented into the service of the privileged few." Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1934

            by fenway49 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 02:48:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  :shrug: (0+ / 0-)

              the decision is the decision and if you reject it because you don't like the answer I don't see much difference between that and the incipient tea party nonsense about the ACA

               

              In the time that I have been given,
              I am what I am

              by duhban on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 02:33:29 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Then you're an idiot (0+ / 0-)

                The decision is not on point. There is no decision covering metadata for 300 million people all at once.

                "I am not for a return to that definition of Liberty under which for many years a free people were being gradually regimented into the service of the privileged few." Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1934

                by fenway49 on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 08:31:22 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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