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View Diary: Why the country keeps drifting to the right (366 comments)

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  •  That's the most realistic and pragmatic thing (6+ / 0-)

    I've ever heard you say.  There is a long, long, long way to go before the Democratic Party of America is a left-wing organisation and the road will be travelled in tiny, tiny increments, not the gigantic leaps forward that many of my friends the Idealists of the Left would like to see.

    •  We no longer have the luxury of time (13+ / 0-)

      so I fail to understand why demonizing The Idealists of the Left is so helpful today.

      "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

      by lunachickie on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 01:11:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It isn't a matter of "luxury" (5+ / 0-)

        it's a question of harsh reality. It's very easy to say something must be done now. Not so easy to say what that something should be. That's the key piece missing from most of the ostensibly leftist critiques that get posted here. Lots of scathing criticism of what's going on, not much in the way of practical suggestions as to what to do about it.

        Until someone comes up with a convincing alternate strategy, incrementalism will continue to rule the roost.

        Nothing human is alien to me.

        by WB Reeves on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 01:57:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, it really is (4+ / 0-)

          because at this point, the only "incrementalism" Democrats see, in terms of actual successes, are mostly on socio-economic-issues. And yes, that includes the ACA.

          Some of the other stuff that gets people really worked up--the NSA and unmanned drones being a couple of stellar examples--are responsible for a great deal of critique. Much of it is backed up with facts.

          And what do we hear in response? I know what I heard in 2007--it practically leapt off the screen. VOTE OBAMA! Vote Dem! Shaddup and hold yer nose, we're goin' in!

          So I did. Twice.  And here we are.

          not much in the way of practical suggestions as to what to do about it.
          Some "practical suggestions" to dismantling the perpetual-war mentality of our Pentagon would be wonderful! Until you have one that is sure-fire guaranteed yourself, you'll have to excuse other mere mortals for being fired up and penning criticisms that they can't always make right on their own.

          "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

          by lunachickie on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 02:52:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No it isn't (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aquarius40

            Most of the folks I know don't have the luxury of complaining and aren't interested in being lectured about stuff they already know by folks who have no positive program to offer. People who are struggling to get by want solutions, not endless carping that substitutes for action.

            Though I'm a "mere mortal" myself, I have a few ideas about what could be done. However, I'm more interested in what others have to offer beyond hot air.

            Nothing human is alien to me.

            by WB Reeves on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 03:52:29 PM PDT

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            •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LeftOverAmerica
               I'm more interested in what others have to offer beyond hot air.
              Then what are you doing here? It's a blog.
              blog
              noun ˈblȯg, ˈbläg\
              Definition of BLOG
              : a Web site that contains an online personal journal with reflections, comments, and often hyperlinks provided by the writer; also : the contents of such a site

              "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

              by lunachickie on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 04:29:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  We're in the comments section on a blog (0+ / 0-)

                which is where discussion and dialog are supposed to take place. One of the purposes of discussion and dialog is to inform oneself about the opinions of others. There's a difference between writing a blog and commenting on a blog you know.

                Or then again, maybe you don't.

                Nothing human is alien to me.

                by WB Reeves on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 04:35:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  LeftOverAmerica
                  (comments section) which is where discussion and dialog are supposed to take place.
                  Yes, and in those comments, one man's "hot air" is another person's "opinion". Who are you to define such things on behalf of others?

                  "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

                  by lunachickie on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 04:55:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Hot air (0+ / 0-)

                    is opinion without the substance of action. Anyone can make this distinction, not just myself.

                    Nothing human is alien to me.

                    by WB Reeves on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 08:03:08 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Sophistry (0+ / 0-)

                      is a plausible yet misleading argument.  

                      No one is ever required to provide "substance of action" when conveying their opinion, on a blog, or anywhere else. Do get over yourself...
                       

                      "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

                      by lunachickie on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 05:49:05 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

        •  The harsh reality is that (7+ / 0-)

          that slow crawl has been going on for decades, but that slow crawl is also not keeping pace with the problems that are being ignored.  FDR was smart and know the system was going to collapse and took steps to save it from itself.

          Obama is no FDR, and neither is Clinton or any other fool that is chosen for the "left" to vote for.

          Obama: self-described Republican; backed up by right-wing policies

          by The Dead Man on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 03:06:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The system was in a state of collapse (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dirtandiron, zett, Bluesee, Aquarius40

            when FDR took office. Nevertheless, he campaigned on a platform of austerity which he abandoned after taking office. Without the mass agitation carried on by the Unions, the CP and the SP there is no certainty that he would have followed the path that he subsequently took or that he would have been successful had he done so.

            Nothing human is alien to me.

            by WB Reeves on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 03:45:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But FDR was open to the voices from the Left (0+ / 0-)

              (Which included his wife.) FDR certainly listened closely to pro-business Democrats but he also listened to left Labor activists, too. He knew that his party depended on their support and that he had to produce for them to continue to get their support.

              Obama has seemingly chosen to listen to only the voices of the corporate wing of the party on economic issues. He didn't lift a finger for the Employee Free Choice Act which would have both helped unions organize (thus pushing back against widening economic inequality) and strengthened a pillar of his own party.

              •  However "open" FDR may have been (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Bluesee, Aquarius40

                I suspect that the amount of political cover they could provide had more to do with it. The oligarchs are more willing to tolerate a reformer when they are confronted by a militant mass movement.

                The President's failure to aggressively push for the Employee Free Choice Act is as much a measure of the Left's organizational and operational failings as anything else. The expectation that we should rely on the personal sympathies of politicians to forward an agenda rather than their naked political self interest is mistaken.

                Nothing human is alien to me.

                by WB Reeves on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 10:53:46 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't disagree (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  WB Reeves

                  But there are many here who argue for supporting the President no matter what and for being quiet rather than creating a concern for him on his left flank.

                  •  Yes they're are (0+ / 0-)

                    but the question is complicated by the fact that it isn't an either or proposition.

                    There are times when supporting the President against reactionary forces makes strategic and tactical sense. OTOH, there are times when the President must be opposed on questions of policy for the same reasons. It isn't as simple as being either for or against the President, at least not if one's focus is on larger political and social questions rather than the personality of whomever is occupying the office at a particular moment.

                    Nothing human is alien to me.

                    by WB Reeves on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 01:15:47 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, come on (0+ / 0-)

          Most of the neoliberals and DC Dem leadership have no intention of ever transitioning back to traditional Democratic values.  That's why we need change so desperately.  It's coming.  

          Center right policies hold nothing of value for anyone in this country, D or R.

          "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being in DC."

          by Betty Pinson on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 11:44:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Who cares about their intentions? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aquarius40

            Who's talking about "converting" them? Not me. I don't know where you're getting this from.

            Concerning your point about center right policies, I'm only sorry that republicans don't agree with you.

            Just what does this change you see coming look like?

            Nothing human is alien to me.

            by WB Reeves on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 01:01:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Cause we'll fix whats broken (7+ / 0-)

        and make it look easy.

        Color me extreme...

        I'll create 20 million jobs in less than 4 years.

        Reverse income disparity, starting with wage growth starting to increase in year 2.

        We'll hit 45%-50% renewables by 2030.

        Cause when you punch Hippies and throw libs under the bus, thats what you lose, the ability to actually fix shit.

        .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 03:19:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Actual "friends" or CongressSpeak "friends?" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens

      The GOP says you have to have an ID to vote, but $ Millionaire donors should remain anonymous?

      by JVolvo on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 02:28:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's not even a centrist party anymore (0+ / 0-)

      The Democratic Party has become center right, on its way to becoming solid right wing.

      The transformation is nearly complete, there are really no issues left where Dem leaders don't hew to the right.

      "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being in DC."

      by Betty Pinson on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 11:42:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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