Skip to main content

View Diary: Why the country keeps drifting to the right (366 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Then would you care to explain (11+ / 0-)

    exactly how 'communism' is 'evil' and 'anti-human'?

    I find it quite odd that the most egalitarian, humanist understanding of social and economic organization that leads to the greatest freedom and potential development for every individual could possibly be viewed as 'evil', unless, of course, you have absolutely no idea what your talking about.

    “It takes no compromise to give people their rights...it takes no money to respect the individual. It takes no political deal to give people freedom. It takes no survey to remove repression.” ― Harvey Milk

    by lucid on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 12:59:26 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  sorry that is something that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FG

      cannot be explained in one comment. If I was to offer something, it's that I do not believe in limiting human achievement or the compensation for it.

    •  I have read some Marx but it has been a while... (0+ / 0-)

      and I do advocate his social egalitarian views but many here have said that it leads to the greatest freedom as you have expressed. I am confused how a system that ensures everyone is equal makes everyone freer. I am not saying it doesn't...I just can't seem to correlate how one creates the other wrt to the basic ideology. I think egalitarianism is a lofty goal, but think freedom is what it costs, but I could be wrong. Can you explain?

      •  In a nutshell wrt to Marx (6+ / 0-)

        For Marx, freedom [defined as the self-determination of self-consciousness] is the essential truth of what he calls species-being. This is a dialectical term he grabbed from Hegel's notion of 'Spirit' - an historical, imminent truth that reveals itself as the ground of human nature through the course of history. So for Marx, economic history is a history that slowly reveals this truth of human beings as a species. The way this happens is via the dialectical rise and fall of various relations of production [loosely socio/economic orders] in relationship to the forces of production [technology]. The reason these rise and fall is because each order is unable to realize the truths that come into being within it's own order. Marx believed capitalism to be the final relation of production for 2 distinct reasons - 1. it's truth is human freedom and 2. the level of technology within it would develop to the point where natural scarcity was irrelevant. He predicted capitalism would eventually fall on it's own because the hierarchical capitalist order and the inherent alienation of labor fundamentally conflict with the two developed truths of capitalism - namely human freedom and the technology conquering of scarcity.

        Of course, my answer to that would be much more simple. The very definition of human freedom requires the freedom of every rational being [I'm more of a Kantian in my views]. I derive this from the central thesis of Kan't moral law - namely the idea of the 'kingdom of ends' - "every rational being must be treated as and end in themselves". This is fundamentally incompatible with an economic structure which instrumentalizes & objectifies rational beings.

        “It takes no compromise to give people their rights...it takes no money to respect the individual. It takes no political deal to give people freedom. It takes no survey to remove repression.” ― Harvey Milk

        by lucid on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 01:54:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So you are saying that capitalism allows for human (0+ / 0-)

          freedom initially but over time the hierarchy that develops causes it to collapse?

          •  Not quite (6+ / 0-)

            The mature idea of human freedom develops within capitalism, but capitalism cannot deliver it in actuality because it is structurally at odds with human freedom - so it will eventually collapse under the contradiction [if you believe in dialectical history...]. Marx thought this collapse would lead to a social order that finally embodied human freedom - one in which the the entire idea of an 'economy' no longer existed because the forces of production had rendered natural scarcity irrelevant & thus the engine of history [the paradigm of production] collapsed. This is what Marx referred to as 'the end of history'.  It is essentially a post economic world in which everyone is free to pursue their interests and develop themselves without threat of starvation governed in a very small d democratic manner...

            Now, before you say, but 'that's impossible!', or 'how would anything get done?', given the current level of division, tribalism and inadequate education, this seems unpragmatic. However, there are very real, and very doable ways in which such a world could be successful & successfully governed. That, however, is an entirely different long winded conversation.

            “It takes no compromise to give people their rights...it takes no money to respect the individual. It takes no political deal to give people freedom. It takes no survey to remove repression.” ― Harvey Milk

            by lucid on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 02:29:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I would also point out (6+ / 0-)

            That we are techologically already past the point where natural scarcity is irrelevant. We can power, feed, house and educate the entire world if we chose to. However, capitalism requires people to sell themselves into slavery in order to have cheap labor to make all of the wasteful, pointless products it requires to enrich the few at the top. So, scarcity continually is manufactured to create the conditions for its labor pool - and give people the illusion of class mobility...

            “It takes no compromise to give people their rights...it takes no money to respect the individual. It takes no political deal to give people freedom. It takes no survey to remove repression.” ― Harvey Milk

            by lucid on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 02:34:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site