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View Diary: Please. Stop with the demographics nonsense. (43 comments)

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  •  If economic issues are what you really (6+ / 0-)

    care about, then there is little to debate between us.  Me, I give equal weight to both social and economic.  Yes, the Koch brothers don't care about gay marriage...but my gay friends do...and it really, really matters.

    I am always bothered by folks who disregard the genuine leftward movement on social issues of the democratic party.  It is important, it really does matter and it really has happened.  Gay rights matter, abortion matters, etc.

    There is a special breed of progressive I sometimes refer to as homo economicus. These are folks who focus so exclusively on economic issues that they devalue the importance of social issues.  

    In the end, it allows folks to ignore the real positives of the democrats on social issues.  Does this mean that the democrats are good on economic issues?  No, of course not.  

    But the leftward movement of democrats on social issues, often at the expense of winning elections (see LBJ and the civil rights movement) has been nothing short of brave and honorable.  It shows that we might well be able to get them to do the same brave and honorable actions when it comes to economic issues.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 02:58:43 PM PDT

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    •  I get what you're saying (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mark Mywurtz

      I care about social issues as well, but I would like to have a Democratic Party that is strong on BOTH social and economic issues.

      Yes, the Democratic Party's leftward move on social issues is commendable.  But is the prospect of more and more people falling into poverty a price worth paying for that?

      28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

      by TDDVandy on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 03:17:12 PM PDT

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      •  No, of course not (2+ / 0-)
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        sja, gramofsam1

        but its not zero sum.  What I am saying is that the leftward shift on social issues is proof that it is possible to get the democrats to shift left on economic issues as well.

        The trick is to figure out how.

        For a long time now, I have thought that we need to very closely study the gay-rights movement.  Cause they have simply conducted the best and most effective progressive movement in recent years.  We need to borrow their strategies and use them for economic equality.

        But we cannot do that if we minimize the importance of social movements, or deny the leftward shift of the democratic party on social issues.

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 03:21:24 PM PDT

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        •  It's not zero-sum (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mark Mywurtz

          But you're comparing apples to oranges.

          On social issues, by and large, the conservative movement isn't really attempting to shift the Overton window to the right.  Part of that is a function of the fact that, especially on abortion, they really can't go any farther to the right than they already are.  It's much easier to move the Overton window to the left when there's no counter-push to move it to the right.

          On economic issues, though, it's more difficult simply because the conservative movement is actively seeking to shift the debate to the right.  And related to the diary from earlier, most Democrats are too scared of being labeled with dirty words like "socialist" to even attempt to shift the debate to the left, even though any "socialist" ideas coming from the Democrats are frankly the saddest excuses for socialism ever.

          28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

          by TDDVandy on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 03:33:28 PM PDT

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        •  There is no secret to this (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          METAL TREK, Empty Vessel

          The Harvey Milk strategy was to come out of the closet and organize. We are still working on those same lines on the question of marriage equality, but not we are past the tipping point, and it is all happening, issue by issue and state by state.

          The difference is that last year, when we reached the tipping point where a majority of Americans approved of marriage equality, it became possible for straight supporters to come out of their own closet and state their support publicly. So the shift in opinion polling has been moving several times faster than historic shifts in actual opinions.

          Organizing has had to focus on several different issues, including DADT and DOMA, in addition to the state-by-state fight against laws and Constitutional amendments against LGBTs. Depending on how narrowly the Supreme Court rules in the DOMA and Prop. 8 cases, those strategies will have to be adjusted again. But we know with great precision which states are targets, based on historic polling data and the state of the laws in each state, and we have a growing pool of activists who have been successful in various states who can help plan for further state actions, in addition to ever-increasing pools of home-grown talent.

          Now we have to get Liberals and Progressives out of the closet and on the metaphorical barricades. See my Diary Obama's commanding lead—among non-voters for the scope of the problem.

          One of the most important such GOTV projects is Battleground Texas, which demonstrates that the alleged point of this diary is itself nonsense. We can get numerous immigrant Latinos to become citizens in Texas; we can get many more Latinos registered to vote; and we can get many more of them to the polls next time. If the Black response to voter suppression last year is anything to go by, we can look forward to record Latino turnout as the Right's War on Immigrants plays out.

          The War on Women is a war on all of us.

          The War on Immigrants is a war on all of us.

          The War on Workers is a war on all of us.

          The War on Drugs is a war on all of us.

          The War on Gun Safety is a war on all of us.

          The War on Science is a war on all of us.

          The War on the Old is a war on all of us.

          The War on the Young is a war on all of us.

          The Crusader War on Non-Christians, and even on Christians who are not Winger Evangelicals, is a war on all of us.

          The Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have been wars on all of us.

          The Wars on Everybody Else in Sight are wars on all of us.

          Republicans have even declared war on each other.

          Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

          by Mokurai on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 08:42:30 PM PDT

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    •  it reflects the party's rich donors (2+ / 0-)
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      AppleP, TDDVandy

      Most of them are solidly left on social issues, but for obvious reasons (they're rich) are solidly right on economic issues.  

      OTOH, blue collar voters (once upon a time the Democratic base) historically are the opposite: solidly left on economic issues, but solidly right on social issues, which they regarded as the decadence and frivolity of moneyed urbanites.

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