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View Diary: Edward Snowden is a Coward and Traitor (275 comments)

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  •  Because he signed paperwork (5+ / 0-)

    saying that he understood the nature of Secret information, and that he understood the criminal penalties for disclosing that information. There is nothing else to be done but to charge him and incarcerate him. There's no real debate, not amongst reasonable people.

    •  Always on top the law, eh? ... (25+ / 0-)

      ...The America we are SUPPOSED to live in says that between the charging part and the incarcerating part there is supposed to be a convicting part.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Fri Jun 21, 2013 at 07:56:17 PM PDT

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      •  I hardly think doc2 is really in any position (0+ / 0-)

        to actually charge him, try him and incarcerate him. S/he can opine about Snowden's guilt or innocence all day long without actually breaking any laws.

        I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

        by second gen on Fri Jun 21, 2013 at 09:34:00 PM PDT

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        •  Of course he's not in such a position... (6+ / 0-)

          ...and of course he can say what he likes about this case, just as the diarist can, including calling someone a traitor.

          Just as I could said, if I were to have been less polite about it, that somebody who argues for incarcerating a person without a trial is unAmerican (even though certain categories of people have been treated unjustly from the time of nation's founding right up until now so perhaps "unAmerican" isn't an accurate descriptor).

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Fri Jun 21, 2013 at 09:53:51 PM PDT

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          •  Obviously there would be a trial. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            v2aggie2, alain2112

            But you seem to be implying here that he could be found not guilty. Seriously? You think "I didn't do it" would fly?

            •  A jury is always free to acquit (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Lost and Found

              because it finds that the law is wrong, or the circumstances sufficiently compelling.

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Sat Jun 22, 2013 at 05:11:14 AM PDT

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              •  Okay. (0+ / 0-)

                But you are talking about some very rare occurrences. Probably nonexistent in the military justice system that Manning is subject to.

                •  There's no such thing as military justice. (0+ / 0-)

                  The concept is oxymoronic.

                  Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                  by corvo on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 05:58:09 AM PDT

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    •  there, FTFY: (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lost and Found
      not amongst good silent people

      Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson. (-9.75 / -9.05)

      by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Fri Jun 21, 2013 at 09:07:42 PM PDT

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    •  I SORT OF grant what you're saying, doc2. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ScienceMom, corvo

      It's not far from the mark.  The government has laws, the laws are usually there for a good reason, and laws should be enforced, or else what's the point of having laws?

      Here's the problem with that, though:

      Laws designed to protect the security of the American people make sense.  Laws like that that are used specifically to target and make martyrs of people who LEAK INFORMATION TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT MATTERS OF GOVERNMENT OVERREACH... That raises big questions.  

      The purpose of secretive organizations like the NSA (and thus, their protected status under various laws) is supposed to be to protect us.  Not to protect THEM from US.  To the extent that that is what they are doing, and the power of the law is being egregiously extended towards doing that, then we have a situation where the law does not deserve to be respected by moral, patriotic Americans.

      And we as an Americans have an obligation to observe all this, and to say, "Yes, we know these are the laws, but we don't have to accept this bullshit any longer."  We should have a say in this matter.

      •  Sure. (0+ / 0-)

        And suffer the consequences of our actions.

        •  Just like Brennan should have suffered the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, NancyK

          consequences of his actions for his involvement in Bush's enhanced interrogation program.  (He tells us that he never really approved of it, but he was just following orders, not to rock the boat.)  

          It's funny.  There are all these REAL VILLAINS in the US government who suffer no consequences, and you're worried somehow that Snowden is slightly less heroic because he's not voluntarily behind bars being subjected to the same inhuman treatment that Bradley Manning is being subjected to.

          I keep making this point about Bradley Manning.  It voids what you're saying about taking the consequences when the consequences are so much more dire than the consequences a Martin Luther King Jr. would have faced.

          •  They could order the assassination (0+ / 0-)

            of Snowden, or of Manning, and the American people really wouldn't take it too badly. The left would go nuts, of course, but the truth is that the country at large has very little tolerance for young bucks who take it upon themselves to leak state secrets. I'm certainly not advocating such a thing, but it is interesting just how outside the norm this community is on this issue.

    •  I'm sure that trumps his duty as a citizen to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo

      defend the Constitution of the United States.

      Right?

      Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

      by JesseCW on Sat Jun 22, 2013 at 04:59:43 AM PDT

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