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  •  If that's true, why look forward to having a (0+ / 0-)

    non-white majority? What difference would it make?

    And if people are the same anywhere, why do other countries have such different forms of government and different ideas about good government? For example, much of the Muslim world is currently fighting over whether or not to be ruled by theocracy (and which sect of Islam will end up running the theocracy). We have crazy theocrats in this country too, but they enjoy much less support than do the Islamists in their countries. I believe it's because of our history and the way our expectations and values have been shaped by our social institutions and our culture. Do you think that things like that make no difference?

    Please visit:

    by Noisy Democrat on Sat Jun 22, 2013 at 12:24:16 PM PDT

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    •  I think people move toward what (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Noisy Democrat

      they like. IOW, if I am trying to get away from something, I'd look into where my values and goals are more represented. I don't think people migrate with the intention of changing the place they are migrating to, they'd rather find the best fit.

      •  Ah. That makes sense. But there are exceptions. (0+ / 0-)

        I bet you're right most of the time. But there are exceptions. Europeans came to North America with the intention of changing the place they were migrating to, not fitting in with the locals; we saw how that turned out. And of course Christian missionaries have gone all over with the intention of changing the religions and cultures of the locals.

        It's happening in reverse, too. Right now there are Islamist groups in the UK and Europe that say outright that they are there to re-shape those societies into Islamic societies. (I know, it sounds absurd, but in Brussels already the Islam Party has  been winning seats in municipal elections on the platform of implementing sharia in Belgium or establishing an Islamic emirate in Brussels. The Belgian Parliament is now arguing over whether pro-sharia elected officials can be legally stopped from carrying out such plans.) In the UK, they hold demonstrations carrying signs saying "Democracy Go To Hell" and "Sharia is the Future."

        Even in the US, the Muslim Brotherhood's Memorandum of Understanding says that their goal here is "eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands ... so that ... God's religion [Islam] is made victorious over all other religions."  So we have "missionaries" who are here to spread Islam and make sharia the supreme law of the land. I don't know what their chances of success are, or what percentage of the Muslim community identifies with their goals. But those who are here for that purpose don't have the same values as those of us who prefer to live under man-made laws, i.e. the Constitution.

        Please visit:

        by Noisy Democrat on Sat Jun 22, 2013 at 12:53:38 PM PDT

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        •  The Dominionists are already here too...... (0+ / 0-)

          I am not sure what the answer is. I don't do religion. It's a big problem.

          •  My point was just that some people *do* (0+ / 0-)

            emigrate because they want to "improve" the place they're emigrating to. The locals may or may not see it as an improvement.

            I would also imagine that some people emigrate without particularly caring about local cultural values or norms. For example, someone could move to a country just to find work, without giving any thought to whether they're in favor of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and other principles of the host country's Constitution. They might very well turn out to wholeheartedly embrace and support such things once they find out about them -- or they might not. I don't know much about what we can expect from the people who will be getting amnesty and becoming citizens, but other people probably know more. That was why I was wondering about the expectations of people who are in favor of less-restrictive immigration laws or looking forward to the future non-white majority.

            Please visit:

            by Noisy Democrat on Sat Jun 22, 2013 at 01:27:28 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Sure, but it's so expensive to live in Hawaii n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

        by Just Bob on Sat Jun 22, 2013 at 01:34:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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