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View Diary: If we had any sense at all ... (a climate change rant) (85 comments)

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  •  Certainly not (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tim DeLaney, Ishmaelbychoice

    but confiscating wealth as you are recommending is what communist countries do.  There are other ways to work on the problem that don't involve confiscation of property.  

    It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 10:09:25 AM PDT

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    •  Maybe you object to the word "confiscation" (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      geomoo, cocinero, DawnN, paradise50

      Do you object to taxation of income? If the fossil fuel industry reaps obscene profits from destroying the planet, should we just stand idly by?

      Or maybe you missed my exchange with VClib upthread?

      Note to Boehner and McConnell: "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." --Bob Dylan-- (-7.25, -6.21)

      by Tim DeLaney on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 10:23:50 AM PDT

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    •  Better dead than red? (7+ / 0-)

      This comment exemplifies the complaint of the diarist:  absurd priorities.  This comment literally expresses the attitude, "Better dead than red."  An appropriate time to debate such details would be when the attitude expressed by the diarist has a chance in hell of being translated into policy.  With Obama's legislative proposals, we are encouraged not to critique on the basis of what we think will happen.  But when it comes to keeping the planet potential habitable, we must dot every i and cross every t before even agreeing on the gravity of the problem.

      The Congress exists primarily to ensure the reelection of members of Congress. - Bacevich

      by geomoo on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 11:45:41 AM PDT

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      •  it amazes me geomoo (hello!) (6+ / 0-)

        that we, collectively (Kossaks, Progressives, Democrats, Greens) with our intimate knowledge of the true depths of the utter disfunctionality of our political system,  and decades (for some of us) of daily observations, continue to delude ourselves that any meaningful change can come from the political system specifically or our society in general.

        Perhaps eventually, when things get bad enough,  but certainly not in time to mitigate the Hell that is coming.  I just don't see it as possible, sad as that is to confess.

        In merely attempting to visualize solutions,  one is immediately cast into the realm of speculative fiction, fantasy and sci-fi.  

        It's not the tech that is lacking,  although improvements are always welcome; tech is simple compared to psych, and the issues we face are (mostly) on the psych side of things,  not the tech.

        Always good to hear from you, geo.

        don't always believe what you think

        by claude on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:57:10 PM PDT

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        •  in other words... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          geomoo, Tim DeLaney, Dragon5616

          ...we don't have the sense.

          don't always believe what you think

          by claude on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:04:10 PM PDT

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        •  Hello, Claude (5+ / 0-)

          Good to hear from you, too.  While the content of your remarks would likely be classified as "hair on fire" by some, the tenor is distinctly objective, which is all the worse for us.  And you have put your finger on why I seldom participate here any more, to wit, it leads to nothing substantive while giving the appearance of vibrant debate.

          Yep, thinks do look bleak.  It is difficult to know how to respond to that, which fact surely gives aid and comfort to those who wish to avoid facing an economically unfriendly consensus among we the people.  I seldom argue my negative vision, because to many sensible people, the raw facts will be paralyzing.  And as the diarist says, that way lies despair.  Otoh, unhinged optimism, or what Marcuse called "happy consciousness" is a deadly enemy of realistic action and must be called out as harmful.  I appreciate the tone taken by this writer.

          So, we do what we can, even if it's only commenting on the progress of the disaster.  And there is the purely human satisfaction of interacting with informed and well-intentioned friends.  Cheers

          The Congress exists primarily to ensure the reelection of members of Congress. - Bacevich

          by geomoo on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:18:12 PM PDT

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          •  Indeed, it does look bleak (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dragon5616, Tim DeLaney, geomoo

            Seemingly one half of the people don't believe there is a problem.  Then the other half that accepts that there is this massive  problem does very little to actually take concrete steps in their own lives to change the situation.  Then there is that tiny group left over that takes action in their personal lives and also tries to change the debate on a larger scale.

            A hard, sober look at the situation is that we, collectively, are a bunch of denialists and a bunch of hypocrites.   For those that are mad at this "truth",  I would ask, what percentage of progressives accept AGW?  And which percentage of those people know how much carbon they need to remove from their lifestyles in order to get down to a sustainable amount and actually take concrete steps to do it?  Is it fewer than one in 10?  Fewer than one in 100?

            And, yes, I'm included in this hypocritical group (although I don't identify as a progressive).  Yes, I live in an energy efficient house (well condo).  Yes, I recycle a lot.  Yes, I paid a pretty penny to support the electrification of our transportation by buying a Volt.  Yes, I try to eat vegetarian two days a week.  Yes, I've protested twice against the Keystone pipeline.  Shoot, I even tried to stop at one kid but I lost that negotiation with my wife (but at least I gained the Volt from that negotiation) But even with that I'm likely no where near where I need to be to reduce my carbon footprint to an "acceptable" level.  

            Bleak, indeed.

            We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

            by theotherside on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 04:50:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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