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View Diary: 36 Million New Legal Immigrants Over 20 Years: The Debate We Should Be Having (28 comments)

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  •  So Are You Suggesting..... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jncca, janemas

    ....that anyone should be able to come and go on United States soil whenever they please without regulation based on the vague concept of "mobility being a human attribute"?  That strikes me as the kind of idealism that ignores the complexities of geopolitical reality dating back for centuries.  Am I understanding you right that if it were left up to you, all borders, passport restrictions, and residency requirements would be lifted tomorrow or am I overreading your comment?

    •  Generally this type of mobility is very limited (0+ / 0-)

      all around the world.  It is not, for example, all that easy to get permanently into Canada.

    •  Let's put it this way. If people have enough (1+ / 0-)
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      money to sustain themselves, there are no restrictions. Until the 20th Century, the U.S. was keen to have anyone arrive to augment the population. If they were ill and contageous, they were kept in quarantine until they either died or beat the infection.
      Immigration law is fundamentally un-Constitutional because it presumes to legislate the behavior of people who are not yet within its jurisdiction. It's a problem that the Constitution sets duties and obligations for public servants which are to be delivered to "persons" regardless of citizenship. Trying to distinguish between citizen and non-citizen to determine what services must be delivered is inappropriate and the SCOTUS has so ruled.
      Whether artificial bodies are persons is subject to argument. That natural persons are persons and that the agents of government are supposed to provide for their welfare is inarguable. Of course, the Cons' strategy of providing nothing and ignoring the duties and obligations of agens of government is an option, as long as the citizens put up with it.
      Some people are quite content to be deprived as long as someone else has it worse. I think we should refer to such people as masochists and the deprivators as sadists.

      We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

      by hannah on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 02:33:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Your knowledge of history is (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IT Professional

        limited, to be charitable. Really, learn something about exit visas. Prior to the 20th century, it was illegal for many people to leave districts. Serfdom, abolished in Russia in 1861, in other parts of Europe before that, restricted the ability of people to move around.

        Prior to the second half of the 20th century, getting from one place to another was difficult. There were natural barriers to movement.

        But every government at every age has restricted movement. And that is good.

        •  It is not good to restrict the movement (0+ / 0-)

          of naturally mobile creatures. Doing it to one's own kind is evil.
          When Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden, they were liberated from a secure environment.

          We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

          by hannah on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:10:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I recently asked someone who is for illegals (0+ / 0-)

      receiving immediate amnesty the same question and it pissed him off.  He did not want to admit his passion does not include open borders, yet no solution to the never ending problem of border crossing.  I have two members, well former members of my family by marriage who prefer the freedom to travel back and forth than to give up their citizenship and become a US citizen; but will do so if forced to return.  I believe most undocumented either by visa or illegal entry prefer to have a residency card without any fear of being returned to their place of birth.  Most just want to work and save up money to build their house back home after working 10 years.  My ex sister in law who became a citizen revealed her goal was to return home and live off her social security income as soon as she hits the 10 year mark.  

      If the borders were suddenly open we would have millions from all south America coming into the states.  What impact do you think this will have on us?

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