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View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Live Digest: 6/27 (378 comments)

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  •  I do not think he's homophobic at all (0+ / 0-)

    He's clearly supported gay candidate and officials in the past and seems to have gay friends, legitimately.

    It is entirely feasible to not have personal animus towards a group while also not supporting policies that are beneficial to that group.

    23 Burkean Post Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Raised), TX-20 (B.A. & M.A. in Political Science), TX-17 (Home); 08/12 PVIs

    by wwmiv on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:05:25 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Lets not defend the asshole. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sapelcovits, abgin, MetroGnome, DCCyclone
      •  Hey... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Every once and awhile it is appropriate to defend someone against unfair attacks. This was an unfair attack and isn't a good characterization of Christie.

        23 Burkean Post Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Raised), TX-20 (B.A. & M.A. in Political Science), TX-17 (Home); 08/12 PVIs

        by wwmiv on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:09:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, I think completely is. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          abgin, DCCyclone
          •  Well (0+ / 0-)

            Let me simply point out that if he were actually homophobic that he would never have appointed the first out gay judge to the state high court, nor would he have had such glowing words of praise for him as well.

            He is not homophobic, he simply holds a particular position that puts him at the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from the LGBT community on that issue. There are plenty of people who do not support gay marriage, but are fine personally with gay individuals. Christie seems to be one of them.

            23 Burkean Post Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Raised), TX-20 (B.A. & M.A. in Political Science), TX-17 (Home); 08/12 PVIs

            by wwmiv on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:16:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  How is supporting discrimination not homophobic? (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sapelcovits, abgin, MetroGnome, DCCyclone
              •  This is the whole debate in a nutshell (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

                by conspiracy on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:23:24 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Because homophobia (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jncca, willisorgeln

                is a personal animus toward a particular group.

                Supporting a particular set of policies may sometimes imply that you are prejudiced, such as in the case of voter ID laws, but it can never prove that you are prejudiced. In the instances where there is not proof (statements of personal animus, further evidence, etc.) of personal prejudice, yet there is evidence that they are not prejudiced personally (in this case) then we should be generous. We do not win allies by treating them like enemies.

                Take this example: say you have a GOP governor who supports voter ID laws, yet this governor had signed into law a state level Dream Act, supports immigration reform generally, has appointed many Hispanic officials, has Hispanic personal friends, and called other GOP officials "heartless" because they believed in self-deportation and other ruthless xenophobic measures.

                Would we say that this governor simply because he supports a policy position that might harm Hispanic voters (voter ID) is a prejudiced individual? No, we probably would not because the preponderance of evidence here is that they are not prejudiced at all.

                Similarly to my example above (which, by the way, is Governor Perry of Texas), the preponderance of evidence shows that Chris Christie is probably not homophobic at all, despite the fact that he does not support gay marriage.

                23 Burkean Post Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Raised), TX-20 (B.A. & M.A. in Political Science), TX-17 (Home); 08/12 PVIs

                by wwmiv on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:28:56 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Christie no different than Goldwater... (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              NMLib, HoosierD42, itskevin, sapelcovits

     against the Civil Rights Act.

              He was sincerely just plain against it.

              His defenders, including even recently at NRO, try to sugarcoat his record by saying he actually was somehow supportive of civil rights for blacks in some ways locally.

              But that is simply trying to build a facade.

              I'm sorry, wwmiv, but you're being a bit naive on this.  Bigotry is complicated, but it's still bigotry even when complicated.  Teddy Roosevelt invited Booker T. Washington to visit the White House even as he didn't give one whit about civil rights and believed "the only good Indian is a dead Indian."  White Southerners long had what they viewed as close personal relationships with blacks even as they raged against voting rights and in support of segregation.

              And having gay friends is nothing new or exculpating for homophobes today.  There are lots of homophobes who rationalize having good relationships with gays, often because they have to under given circumstances, even while holding a chauvenistic condescension.

              45, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

              by DCCyclone on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 07:13:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I would argue (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                that Teddy Roosevelt inviting Booker T. Washington to the White House wasn't in spite of his feelings on civil rights, but BECAUSE of them.

                If he wanted to give off the facade of being in favor of civil rights, Washington was the perfect choice.  He certainly wasn't going to invite someone like W.E.B. DuBois.  

                Inviting someone like Booker T. Washington to the White House sent the message that civil rights should be obtained slowly and gradually, which is what Washington basically argued.

    •  Having gay friends (6+ / 0-)

      And appointing LGBT people to various offices doesn't excuse him denying a group of people something which the SCOTUS has affirmed time and time again is a fundamental right.

      In fact, instead of excusing it, it makes it worse. He wants to deny his friends the right to marry in the state of New Jersey? What kind of asshole does that to his friends?

      25, Practical Progressive Democrat (-9.38, -8.51), Gay, IN-02 - Defeat Wacky Jackie for 2014!

      by HoosierD42 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 03:19:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Are you kidding? (0+ / 0-)

      Ask any of your gay friends how they feel about this.  I am a gay male, and what you are saying is the equivalent of a politician liking black people and giving them jobs, while simultaneously not supporting anti-lynching legislation.  

      Can you get married tomorrow?  Imagine if you couldn't.  Do you have any idea how completely demoralizing you are?  

      What is your definition of leadership?  Isn't it all about the tough choices so that all people can be allowed their God-given rights of liberty and equality?

      Have you ever taken a tough stand on an issue?  Ever?

      •  he doesn't need to ask a friend. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

        by James Allen on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:38:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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