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View Diary: NYT Lead: C.I.A. Inspector General’s “Report Finds Concerns With Ties to New York Police” (163 comments)

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  •  It's never too late for meaningful change (11+ / 0-)

    The night is darkest just before dawn and other such cliches.

    OWS is just one salvo in a struggle against the financial elites that has gone on for hundreds or even thousands of years, depending how broad a view you want to take.

    Did you really think they would up and run because of a little disorder?

    No, my friend.  

    The onus is on us to regroup, learn, and phrase our next co-ordinated argument against the elite in a more effective manner.  

    They aren't going away.  But neither are we.  As long as this empty system rots away the American soul, there will be those who say no.  We can do better.  Let's try.

    •  I'm in (12+ / 0-)

      If I could manage to push off this damn-near rabid pack of AuthoritarianYawnerPoohPoohTrolls long enough, that is. ;)

      I've been here since 2009. Only in the last month or so have I been as aggressive and confrontational towards other members HERE, on Daily Kos, as I've been.

      And why?

      Because all kinds of people feel it's their DUTY as Democrats to insist those of us who put civil liberties over party affiliation keep their voices down.

      And after sustained exposure to some of these people, to whom I've found myself answering the SAME FUCKING BULLSHIT smears/inaccuracies over and over again, my continued restraint from saying outright, "GO FUCK YOURSELF," is quickly becoming unbearable. ;)

      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
      ~ Jerry Garcia

      by DeadHead on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 02:51:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The pragmatists will always be with us (12+ / 0-)

        Learning to deal with them while remaining patient and calm is the burden all of us who commit to principle must bear.

        The system continues.  Candidates run and get elected.  And the lure of power and money co-opts many centrist moths who fly so close to that flame they become consumed by it and one with it.  Until the system radically changes form, our role will always and forever be to point out the hypocrisies of the powerful and needle them to do better.

        We better get used to it.

        And if truth is on our side, there is no shame in speaking it.

        And the only time I personally will even slightly hold back is during the immediate run-up to a general election.  Even if I don't think Obama will do much good, he'll of course do less bad than Romney or McCain.

        Most Americans are too busy scraping out a living and consuming the few mass-produced pop-culture imports they can afford to notice or care about the ways Obama has continued the assault on civil liberties.

        Those of us for whom dissent is vital know it rests on a bedrock of civil liberties protections.  As long as the economic/political system lasts in its current form (oligarchic capitalist control where money = speech), our lonely role will be to defend our civil liberties with aggression, pride, and determination.  

        And we'll continue to have re-explaining our defense of civil liberties today and to future generations of system-pragmatists who will forever groan, roll their eyes, and wish openly we would Just. Shut. Up.

      •  My version of that is "YOU UNBELIEVABLE (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        BASTARDS." But I usually feel that more in response to the media, certain parts of the government, etc.

        It was extraordinarily creepy, and sad, to discover that my government considers me to be an extremist and a terrorist.
        Because I'm an environmental activist.

        Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:33:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's going to take more than a coordinated (7+ / 0-)

      argument, my friend.

      Really, there is only one way under these circumstances. For ever person with their heads unassed to get themselves to D.C. and just be there. A city of 600,000 would be brought to a halt by a few million people just being there. On the street corners, in the squares, on the Malls, outside the White House, around the Capitol building, the Senate Offices, etc. just being there. No slogans, no chants, no tee shirts, no marches. Just be there. One person standing (or walking). Times millions.

      What can they do, make every place and every act illegal?

      The heinous farce of modern fascism will be exposed.

      Only a low-tech solution like this will work any more. The advantages of the net for the people have been turned into an asset for the state. How better to track, intercept and put down dissent than to simply listen in on their conversations?

      And what then?

      Do the same in NYC. At the HQ's of the major oil companies.

      Make simple demands, one at a time.

      Stop KXL.
      Jail the Banksters.
      Restore the full Bill of Rights.
      Stop TPP.
      Halt the derivatives market.
      Rescind the AUMF, Patriot Act, NDAA, Military Commisions, etc.
      Shut down offshore tax shelters
      Halt foreclosures.
      Build wind, solar...
      Tax gas hogs
      Cap executive pay
      De-criminalize marijuana, release users from prisons.
      De-privatize prisons.

      Use simple 80% consensus decision-making to identify and prioritize demands. Deliver 1 per week.

      And don't leave.

      Rely on yourself and those not there to provide for your basic needs. Sacrifices will be necessary. Avoid camping if you can, but it will ultimately become unavoidable for many.

      The first requirement is that it grows quickly. People can't hesitate to show up.

      Recruit more so it only grows, not shrinks. Put relationships on the line if you must.

      Sorry, but this is no time for being open-minded, for compromise.

      The Class, Climate and Terror Wars are one and the same and after three decades they are bigger than Auschwitz in killing, destroying, displacing, denigrating, and dehumanizing us. And it is getting bigger. And the yawners are embedded in the culture and the organizations that feed it.

      I really have nothing else to say at this point. Except that there is not much time.

      Add the median effective tax rate, healthcare costs (20%?), education costs, and other things guaranteed in Denmark & Sweden, we pay MORE for LESS. Somebody's gotta pay the billionaires. They don't grow on trees. ☮ ♥ ☺

      by Words In Action on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 07:40:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Agree with you but have one quibble: (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      We weren't the disorder.
      They were the disorder.

      Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:31:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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