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View Diary: Despite Government Denials, Documents Show NSA Continues Harvesting Americans' Data (129 comments)

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  •  What NSA is doing is not illegal (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JackND, sebastianguy99, dadoodaman

    Government agencies don't act in a vacuum.  They do as they are directed by laws passed by Congress and the President.  Remember 9/11?  Americans certainly do have short memories.  All the blame for it was laid at the feet of the intelligence agencies, and the NSA was named a prime failure.   So the Patriot Act was passed and these programs are what they came up with to try to prevent future attacks.  What would you expect from a bunch of mathematicians and computer scientists?  I'm sure BTW, that many Military Industrial Complex contractors added their "suggestions" political bribes into developing these programs.  

    So now Americans are having buyer's remorse.  The only way to stop these programs now is by repealing all or most of The Patriot Act.   Asking a spy agency to stop using their spying programs is kind of like asking the Army to stop using their humvees.  Or drones.  It has to be directed by the President and Congress.  

    •  Because if the Presidents Lawyer says it's (7+ / 0-)

      not illegal, then it's not.

      Good try at blaming the victims.  Really.  

      Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

      by JesseCW on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 11:53:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Victims of what? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sebastianguy99

        The NSA is the President's agency.  He appoints (or re-appoints) their chief director.  All the government agencies are essentially his to do as he directs (following US laws, of course).  If you think he's using them to do something illegal, then I guess you should be demanding his impeachment.  Is that what you want?

        •  Do you think searches without warrant, probable (6+ / 0-)

          cause, or even a hint of reasonable suspicion are Constitutional?

          Do you think the Patriot Act is a higher law than the Bill of Rights?

          Yes, the people who have had their fundamental rights violated by this Administration have been victimized by it.

          Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

          by JesseCW on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 12:51:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Is somebody from NSA going into people's homes (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JackND, sebastianguy99

            and searching through their stuff?  Confiscating their personal computers or cellphones?

            If Verizon or AT&T are storing your conversations and e-mail on their servers, does it belong to you or to them?  If it's relayed or picked up by a government-owned communication satellite, who owns it then?   Can somebody own radio-waves?   When you put something out on the internet, a picture, or an e-mail, who does it belong to when it's "out there"?

            I don't think the Founding Fathers imagined cellphones or computers when they wrote the Constitution.  Obviously laws need to be updated to the 21st century.  

            BTW, I do think the Patriot Act should be repealed and new privacy laws written.  And when the privacy laws are written they should also include private companies, not just the government.  I just don't believe "the Government" is nefariously out spying on everyone.  Just mathematically, it would be impossible.

            •  What about snail mail? Do you feel the same way (6+ / 0-)

              about that? Should anyone be able to open your mail, because you put it "out there" and a government agency is delivering it?

              "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

              by ranger995 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 02:05:40 PM PDT

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              •  The SCOTUS has said no to that since 1877. They (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Anna M

                ...can however record the addressing information without a warrant. What exactly do you think the United States Postal Inspection Service has been doing all these years?

                And much like the NSA programs, they use that addressing information as part of an investigation and development of probable cause to take to a court to get a warrant for more intrusive measures including opening up letters and packages. Lots of child abusers were caught this way as they sent that filth through the mail.

                The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

                by sebastianguy99 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 02:49:37 PM PDT

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                •  I think this is more like they take your mail, (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JesseCW, kyril

                  open it up, copy it, reseal it and send it on its way. They don't read it, unless they are trying to figure out if you really are an American person, then they store it for 5 years and if there is any evidence of a crime, they pass it to the FBI.

                  I don't think that would be supported by SCOTUS or anyone. So, why do the rules change when it is electronic?

                  I understand Facebook or webpage, that's public information, unless of course, you make some kind of privacy viewing limits.

                  Although I do like the commenters idea of repealing the Patriot Act. That would be really nice.

                  "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

                  by ranger995 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 03:07:46 PM PDT

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                  •  Metadata is not content and is not protected. (0+ / 0-)

                    All of this infor we now have and still nothing that is illegal.

                    btw..SCOTUS says you do not have 4th Amendment protection of information you turn over to third parties. I,I just don't think people have quite grasp that yet.

                    The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

                    by sebastianguy99 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 03:16:28 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Only if those third parties agree to share it. So, (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JesseCW

                      if I mail you a letter and the police ask you if you can read it, that's OK. It's their possession at that point.

                      The rules signed by Eric Holder clearly authorize obtaining and storing content, not just meta data.

                      I wish you had shown up in my diary last week to discuss these things.

                      Link

                      You would have added to the discussion.

                      "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

                      by ranger995 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 03:22:40 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  As I said, no illegalities. (0+ / 0-)

                        Yes, I did read Holder's outline of procedure for what do with inadvertent interceptions of domestic communication. That is a mitigation procedure not a broad authorization to "harvest" any and all communications as was implied when the story first broke.

                        Our fellow citizens in the intelligence agencies are not plugged into the servers of these companies just sucking up every bit of data as was initially implied. It would be darn impractical for them to process capturing any and all content even with their technological capabilities.

                        Also, encryption is the key. I do not believe people are truly serious about privacy if they aren't taking steps to thwart the prying eyes of government and the numerous other bad actors out there who can intercept your communications.

                        There is no excuse for failing to protect oneself especially when there are very good tools available free of cost and/or low cost.

                        The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

                        by sebastianguy99 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 04:02:00 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  All of these issues were already adressed (0+ / 0-)

              back in the 20th century.

              Nothing has changed since then.

              But you already knew that when you started pretending that the Patriot Act had somehow trumped the 4th Amendment.

              Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

              by JesseCW on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 04:59:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Don;t forget that the president is duly elected. (0+ / 0-)

          Not counting in 2000 of course. If the "victims" want this stop, they certainly can do so.

          The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

          by sebastianguy99 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 02:51:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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