Skip to main content

View Diary: George Zimmerman murder trial completes first week of testimony (598 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  I hope you are right (36+ / 0-)

    But here is the problem.

    Trayvon Martin is not here to dispute the narrow definition of "Self-defense" that permits his own shooting.

    Absent any real evidence that Zimmerman murdered Martin, it is going to be an uphill battle to convict Zimmerman, because proof is about evidence ... and there isn't actually that much.

    We can all take a view about how we feel about the case, and the jury are no different to anyone else in that regard. Who do you believe? and if they convict on that basis, how safe is that conviction?

    These are questions that matter, but there is a further point ...

    The crazy gun laws are, in the end, what are responsible for the death of that young man. If Zimmerman had stayed in his car. If Zimmerman had not approached Martin, or had backed away when approached by him.

    If the law demanded that he run away if at all possible ... need I go on?

    The death of Trayvon Marting may be blood on the hands of George Zimmerman, but he is little more than a poster child for all those who support concealed carry and stand your ground.

    The responsibility for his death can be laid at the door of them all.

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    Who is twigg?

    by twigg on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 05:23:41 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Look what kind of a country we've become. (8+ / 0-)

      Although, come to think about it, has it ever been different?

      The GOP can't win on ideas. They can only win by lying, cheating, and stealing. So they do.

      by psnyder on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 05:53:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I respectfully disagree (0+ / 0-)

      there are millions of carry and conceal permits issued in the US - this is about a man and poor judgment.  From the evidence to date - poor judgment on several persons parts.

      I agree a gun and poor judgment don't mix.

      The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

      by ctexrep on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 05:55:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yep. They are all "Responsible Gun Owners" (21+ / 0-)

        Until they are not.

        I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
        but I fear we will remain Democrats.

        Who is twigg?

        by twigg on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 06:00:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Just like were not terroists until (3+ / 0-)

          we are.

          I guess all the eavesdropping is OK.  I guess you're cool with Government stripping our rights....

          The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

          by ctexrep on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 06:11:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ahhh ... (6+ / 0-)

            Love the smell of burning when actual, you know, debate goes up in smoke.

            I think we are done here.

            I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
            but I fear we will remain Democrats.

            Who is twigg?

            by twigg on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 06:21:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Like Tom Cruise said in "A Few Good Men" (0+ / 0-)

              "You can't handle the truth"

              There's no debate - it's factual - Government is infringing on our rights - you can't pick and choose which ones you think it's OK or not.  Once you allow the Government to infringe on one right - they will infringe on all rights.

              The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

              by ctexrep on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 06:41:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Nope, it's not that (11+ / 0-)

                It is the insistence that the laws that allow the use of firearms, are equivalent to the inalienable rights enshrined in the Constitution.

                It is a false equivalence. All rights are constrained, none are unfettered, and 2nd Amendment rights are not "special" in this regard.

                One of us cannot, apparently, handle the truth ... I do not think it is me.

                I am done here (now I am repeating myself)

                I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
                but I fear we will remain Democrats.

                Who is twigg?

                by twigg on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 06:46:07 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  No. It wasn't Tom Cruise. It was Jack Nicholson... (9+ / 0-)

                ...who said "You can't handle the truth." Remember what happened next?

                Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                by Meteor Blades on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 07:48:06 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I can't handle not understanding if (0+ / 0-)

                  the expression "creepy ass cracker" is a racial expression or not. (Am not familiar with the usage of that expression and have never heard it before). I thought it means "rapist". I wouldn't know why that in itself would be a racial expression, as you can have either white or black rapists. In the context Trayvon Martin had used it, it indicates that the "creepy ass cracker", who followed him, was a white man.

                  But that doesn't make it racist, because I can't see any situation where a black man with a gun would follow another black man and threaten to rape him. I guess if a black man is raped by another man, it would be in all likelihood a white man. Is that assumption correct? I am just upset because I think Don West tried to make Rachel Jeantel a racist person herself.

                  But as I am neither familiar with that kind of language and not with its usage among the black community, I want to know, how you interpret this exchange between West and Jeantel. Here is the transcript:

                  AMY GOODMAN: During questioning by defense attorney Don West, Rachel Jeantel described what Trayvon Martin had said about the man who was following him.

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: I had asked him how the man looked like. He looked like creepy ass cracker.

                      DON WEST: OK, let me make sure we got that. "Creepy ass cracker."

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: "Ass cracker," yeah.

                      DON WEST: OK. Is that what you recall him saying?

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: Yes.

                      DON WEST: OK. And that to mean, you mean, like a white individual?

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: Yes, Caucasian.

                      DON WEST: What did you say to him? Or what did he say to you after that?

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: So, he kept—he told me the man was looking at him. So I had to think it might have been a rapist. Said, "You don’t know the area; he might have been a rapist."

                  AMY GOODMAN: Defense attorney Don West questioned Rachel Jeantel about why she characterized the murder as racial.

                      DON WEST: What’s one thing about what Trayvon Martin told you that made you think this was racial?

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: Describing the person.

                      DON WEST: Pardon me?

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: Describing the person.

                      DON WEST: I just didn’t—

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: Describing the person that was watching him and following him, sir.

                      DON WEST: I see. Describing the person is what made you think it was racial?

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: Yes.

                      DON WEST: And that’s because he described him as a "creepy ass cracker"?

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: Yes.

                      DON WEST: So, it was racial, but it was because Trayvon Martin put race in this.

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: No.

                      DON WEST: You don’t think that’s a racial comment?

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: No.

                      DON WEST: You don’t think that "creepy ass cracker" is a racial comment?

                      RACHEL JEANTEL: NO

                  •  I think you're getting confused by the... (8+ / 0-)

                    ...way the wording. The expression "creepy ass cracker" does not mean rapist.

                    "Cracker" is the noun and "creepy ass" is the combined adjective. It's not "creepy" as the adjective and "ass cracker" as the noun.

                    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                    by Meteor Blades on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 09:00:48 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  OMG, thank you. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      twigg

                      I had no idea I was so much off.

                      Oh well, I will sleep over it. May be then I have an idea if it's a racist or just a vulgar expression.

                      •  Well you are not the Attorney for Zimmerman (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        The Marti, worldlotus, a2nite, mimi

                        He was "off" too!!

                        It's how young people talk, and often the slang is very local.

                        I don't like it either, but I'm an old curmudgeon, and my parents didn't like the way I spoke as a teenager.

                        The clash of cultures in that courtroom is making my head spin.

                        I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
                        but I fear we will remain Democrats.

                        Who is twigg?

                        by twigg on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 10:24:06 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I wasn't offended by the word itself, I was (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          twigg

                          offended by the way Don West tried to use this expression to paint Trayvon Martin and Rachel Jeantel as racists.

                          The cultures, both of them, represented in this court room, are both not very familiay to me, even though I live in the US a long time. I just have too little real life contact to both social groups and can be easily amazed, upset or disgusted. I am pretty generous in handling "language" and am more sensitively opposed to "language control" than sensitively supportive of "politically and socially appropriate language".

                          I don't believe you can control language without being imo inappropriately manipulative or oppressive. Words mean a lot, so I rather accept words as they come out of anyone's mouth and take them face value than getting upset with the meaning the words have in the mind of the person who spewed them out. I think it's more honest.

                      •  It is not a nice word...It means a white person, (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        mimi

                        and it is usually used to refer to a white person who is considered of lower class.  "White trash" "red neck" are equivalent is some ways to the word.  You will hear it more in the South.

                         Whether or not it is at the level of being a racist word is a debate and some say "yes" and some say "no".  I would agree that it is very offensive and I would never, ever use it but I have heard it used many times growing up in the South but not as much since I have moved to Nevada.

                        •  I understand, but racism isn't "nice" either, (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          a2nite, sukeyna

                          so I guess the usage of "not so nice words" to describe the feelings the victims of racism is natural, honest and in a way appropriate. Trayvon Martin used these words in a moment where he was fearful of his life. Apparently he knew quite well with what kind of person he potentially had to deal with, as the outcome of that encounter with Zimmerman shows quite obviously.

                    •  OTH, apparently Rachel Jeantel thought (0+ / 0-)

                      it was a rapist as she says in her testimony, so I thought she thought Trayvons description of a creepy ass cracker was an indication that Trayvon thought that person might be a rapist.

                      Confusing. But probably in the end not relevant, I don't know.

              •  This diary is not about government infringement (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Yasuragi, a2nite

                of rights. It is about the George Zimmerman trial. Go write a diary about the topic you are interested in.

                "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

                by rubyr on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 08:41:17 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  so, any law that supports a daily mixture (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        a2nite, sukeyna

        of things that don't mix, like the availability of guns to anybody and the existence of poor judgment on a daily basis by almost all people alive, is acceptable to you?

        As twigg said above:

        The death of Trayvon Marting may be blood on the hands of George Zimmerman, but he is little more than a poster child for all those who support concealed carry and stand your ground.
        Amen.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site