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View Diary: Obama’s 50 Greatest Progressive Accomplishments (571 comments)

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  •  You are not contradicting me. (14+ / 0-)

    All your points are valid, and I covered them with:

    More healthcare for average foks? Hopefully.
    You did not address:
    Massive increase in Corporate profits? Guar-Un-Teeed!
    The problem? We needed healthcare reform for two reasons:
    A) Coverage for everyone,

    Hopefully, Obamacare will address problem A, but this remains to be seen.

    However, the ACA is a profit give-away to Corporate interests, and it did not need to be. Rather than having a Medicare-for-all insurance plan, which would have been radically efficient, Obamacare subsidizes Corporate insurance companies with taxpayer dollars.

    Profiteering by insurers, pharmaceuticals, and Corporate hospital chains is the primary driver of high health costs in the US.

    Subsidizing them with taxpayer cash is just as destructive as subsidizing Wall Street with taxpayer cash. It just encourages them to continue to suck the lifeblood out of state, local, and the federal government, and businesses.

    You are correct. And you completely ignored why I am correct.

    •   Hey, I want the moon and the stars too, (8+ / 0-)

      but my mama told me that money doesn't grown on trees and don't get my hopes up.

      Come down out of the clouds and join the real world.  

      In the time it took Adam Lanza to reload, eleven children escaped. What if...

      by Sixty Something on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 02:11:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This isn't about utopia. (14+ / 0-)

        It's about once again Reforming the system to shift the balance of power away from the plutocrats.

        The history of the US is a history of cycles of corruption countered by Reform, with the social justice of the nation always incrementally increasing as the highs and lows flow back and forth.

        Good has tended to win overall, but the plutocrats always shift the power back toward themselves until it hurts enough that the citizenry has to react.

        Your attitude of complacency and defeatism can set back the progress of our Democracy by generations.

        But if you're lucky, a Democrat will be in charge while it all falls apart.


        •  blah blah blah plutocrats blah blah (7+ / 0-)

          for the right it's minorities and working women

          for the left it's rich people

          middle class white people just HAVE to have someone to blame for everything life hasn't handed to them

          god forbid anyone fucking adapt

          nope.  it's a conspiracy.  it's the devil.  it's the gays.  it's the bankers (or jews if you are a racist).  

          how about it's up to the fucking middle class to shut the fuck up with the crying and whining and fake battles with nobody and just work smarter and harder and unified.  is that too much to ask?  apparently it is.  they would rather bitch and moan.

          •  There isn't a smidgen of whining... (10+ / 0-)

   the comment you replied to.

            Nor is there in any of my other posts.

            This is about the accurate perception of reality, and taking actions that increase social justice.

            Obfuscators splatter nonsense every time the analysis hits too close to home.

            ...just work smarter and harder and unified.
            I picture this being spoken by Dilbert's pointy-haired boss.


            •  oh, it's 'the' accurate perception of reality. lol (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Quicklund, rapala

              here's a news flash for you, 3rdOption.  when you think you have 'the' accurate perception of reality, you are full of your own shit.

              •  Accurate perception of picked cherries (0+ / 0-)

                is much more accurate.

              •  "the accurate perception of reality," *AND* (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                4kedtongue, Superskepticalman

                ..."taking actions that increase social justice."

                First, note how you left that part out, so you could focus on mockery.

                Second, yet another Straw Man:

                Show me, in my comments in this dairy, where I said:

                I think I have 'the' accurate perception of reality
                Since I didn't, your entire comment, like the other one, is pure bullshit that adds nothing to the dialog.

                You are willfully misrepresenting what I'm actually saying, so that you can attempt to diminish my point of view with mockery.

                But, sadly for you, in this, as always when I encounter you, it's trivial to bust up your logical scams.

                What would be interesting, and probably sad, would be for you to expose why you insist on perpetrating these logical scams.

                What motivates someone to use garbage debate tactics to derail legitimate conversations, over and over?

                •  logical scams? do you hear yourself talking? (0+ / 0-)

                  if you really want to know what i am talking about then go back and read what i said from the first comment.  here's a quote to get you started:

                  blah blah blah plutocracy blah blah
                  that was followed with my opinion of the ENTIRE IDEA that the poor middle class is suffering because of the unfair oppression of the rich.  it's whiny bullshit in my opinion.  there are over 300 million people in this country and if they let 3 million rich people get in the way of their economic prosperity it's only because they are fucking idiots.  so, they should shut the fuck up and go to the corner and think about how ashamed they should feel about being such impotent cry babies.

                  300 million against 3 million.  zero fucking excuses.

                  the entire 'plutocracy' nonsense is just pure scapegoat politics and either you fell for it hook line and sinker or you are selling it.

                  you give me 300 people and have me compete with 3 people and then see what happens.  they won't be any bitching about how unfair things are.  jesus christ.  

                  as i said above.  for the right it's minorities and working women and for the left it's rich people.  you just can't handle the fact that you out number everyone 100 to fucking 1 and are still crying about how hard it is.

                  and crying about it when you live in a 1st world country?  while people are starving and dying of the fucking flu around the world.  no, just shut the fuck up.  you don't get to cry 'unfair, unfair' when you have everything stacked in your favor and you still can't get your shit together.

                  i'm sick and tired of hearing about plutocracy and the 1% and revolution from people who are even if poor in this country are still vastly wealthy compared to the people who ACTUALLY suffer from plutocracy in the world.  that's why i mock it.  cause it makes me sick to my stomach.  

                  •  Candyland (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    I heard this speech, in annotated form, from Calvin Candle, DiCaprio's character in Django Unchained.

                    He was commenting that he could not understand why, since slaves outnumbered white people in the south, the slaves didn't just get together and kill all the white people.

                    In other words, they were at fault for their own slavery.

                    Thank you for explaining your value set.

    •  Yo8u are wrong about the healthcare profits going (9+ / 0-)

      up Guar-Un-Teeed!.  While the number of insured may go up on the corporate health care side, the guaranteed issue and max 3 to 1 premium spread along with the 80 to 85% MLR all will put a huge dent in profits going up. If they do at all.

      Second there was never enough votes for a Medicare for all system. So that was not an option at the time.

      Right man, right job and right time

      by Ianb007 on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 02:32:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You need to learn math. How many MILLIONS... (9+ / 0-)

        ...of uninsured are there that will soon be paying premiums to Corporate insurers, many paying with taxpayer "subsidies"?

        The insurers, hospitals, and drug companies went along with the ACA and accepted certain regulations specifically because of the massive influx of new cash they knew they'd be getting.

        Second there was never enough votes for a Medicare for all system.
        Because of Corporatist Democrats.

        Thus, my point.

        •  That equals greater efficieny (5+ / 0-)

          Listen up. It is not evil for people to make money. Even businesses!

          IF insurance industry profits go up in total thanks to the addition of 30 million people getting coverage when they were not covered before that will mean more Americans are getting insurance for less money per policy.

          And that is called, wait for it, a Good Thing.

          Indeed, I can do the math.

          •  Unnecessary ineffenciencies added exclusively... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            congenitalefty, 4kedtongue

   allow Corporations to profit for no added value, especially when that profit is funded by taxpayers, for no added value, is wrong.

            This is precisely what's wrong with the Republican's push to privatize everything.

            There are places for profit, and there are places for socialism. Public schools, prisons, and public health care should not be corporate profit centers.

            Taking the Republican "Privatize it ALL" side of this argument is, wait for it, a Bad Thing.

            •  Word salad (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              I see you did not attempt to correct my math. that was wise.

              •  Profit salad. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                congenitalefty, 4kedtongue

                I already said that the insurance companies were going to make more money because of more customers.

                They agreed to regulations that restrict, among other things, how much profit they take per customer because they knew they would make massive gains net.

                The efficiency gains are trivial compared to the profit gains, much of which will come at the expense of the taxpayer.

                Further, the "efficiency gains" are meaningless compared to the efficiency standard, which is Medicare, which takes me right back to my point.

                The ACA is a profit scam.

                Will it help some folks? Yes. At an unnecessarily massive cost.

                •  And as I said in my very first reply to you (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  The possibility that the companies might make more money in toto (unproven, speculation at this point) is not unethical. Profit is not evil.

                  The net result across the US will be more people insured with each paying on average less money for that coverage. That is a social good.

                  IF at the same time insurance companies find theior industry to be healthier, then there is a term for it :win-win.

                  I am sorry but to me your value system boils down to this: if it doesn't fuck over the insurance companies it is immoral.

                •  Compared to your perfect scenario (0+ / 0-)

                  The ACA is Scam.  Compared to reality its a huge step in the right direction.  The ACA has enough meat in it to get us closer to a state by state single payer.

                  Right man, right job and right time

                  by Ianb007 on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 11:30:36 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  How are they gaur-an-teed? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SoCalSal, rapala, Onomastic

      You ignore the new law which caps profits at 20% of revenue.

      But never mind stuff like that. . .

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