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View Diary: Can We Agree That The Following Should be Free in a Civilized Society? (183 comments)

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  •  I don't disagree with your specifics, ... (0+ / 0-)

    but I can't imagine what it would take to get someone to clean out a city's sewer system, for example, no matter how much they were paid or catered to.  If the person doesn't need money because he already has plenty, what method do we have to motivate folks to perform work for the benefit of others that is extremely hard or disgusting or whatever?  That work STILL must get done, or the schools/parks/playgrounds will become things of the past as there will be no one willing to do the work necessary to make those things possible.  Say good-bye to electricity, for starters, thus bye-bye goes everything that makes life comfortable or enjoyable.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

    by Neuroptimalian on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 10:50:20 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Most people (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JesseCW, TiaRachel

      will pitch in if everyone else is doing their share.  It's when we see freeloaders getting their free ride without consequences, that we put up our feet and refuse to contribute.  A society without hunger and homelessness would have to have more comprehensive social participation and expectations of cooperation.  Even sociopaths will take the path of least resistance in a cohesive society where the unwritten rules demand that everybody do certain things: in a household, your turn at dishes; in a community, your day working the Recycling Truck.  If specific individuals aren't forced to do nasty jobs in order to survive, then EVERYBODY will have to do Their Fair Share of nasty jobs.  

      Large festivals often do this with a floating work credit requirement and sign-up sheets.  Everybody ends up spending four hours doing something most people consider unpleasant, but you get to choose the combination of least-unpleasant/most-available for yourself.  My sister takes daycare for the camp children.  I usually work in either the first-aid shack or late-night security.  My brother Jon scrubbed the port-a-potty, because as he put it, HE had to use it, and he wanted to be damned sure it was clean.  You might be surprised at the number of more positive alternatives that can be devised to Getting Nasty Stuff Done when the community isn't crippled by predators and the paranoia they engender.

      •  And yet, no commune has ever managed ... (0+ / 0-)

        to pull off this sort of lifestyle ... or at least none that I'm aware of ... over any length of time.  And if a tiny community cannot do it, how can a large one ever hope to?  If society had a way to expel non-contributors, then such a plan might work; but there are those who would see to it that that option would not be available.

        Still, it's all academic because we'll never see our savings accounts filled to overflowing by government policy.  The discussion was interesting, though; thanks.

        "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

        by Neuroptimalian on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 11:10:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Excuse me? (0+ / 0-)

          Twin Oaks has been in operation for forty years.  The Oneida community survived until the original members died.  Shaker communities once dotted the near Midwest, continuing for over a century.  And that's not mentioning Catholic and Buddhist monastic communities at all.

          Methinks you have an entrenched viewpoint and are refusing to acknowledge contradictory information.

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