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View Diary: Updated: Why Is The NSA Spying On The European Union? (141 comments)

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  •  Very, very, very wrong. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lotlizard, fran1
    What the European Union is all about is economic activity. In its earlier form it was known as the European Common Market. Coordination of economic activity among the various member states remains its predominant focus and reason for existence. I find it plausible that the NSA was expending its efforts in order to obtain information of an economic rather military nature. Is this the job of the NSA?
    What the European Union is all about is peace between the member nations. It's earliest form was the European Coal and Steel Community. That came out of the Schuman Plan, drawn up by Robert Schuman in co-operation with another of the EU Founding Fathers, Jean Monnet
    (Schuman) published (the Plan) on 9 May 1950, the date now regarded as the birth of the European Union. He proposed joint control of coal and steel production, the most important materials for the armaments industry. The basic idea was that whoever did not have control over coal and steel production would not be able to fight a war.
    As for your claim
    The EU has no military forces. All European military forces are under the control of national governments
    I suggest you look up Eurocorps, not to mention the fact that most EU counties are also members of NATO.

    We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

    by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 10:54:09 AM PDT

    •  The aim of peace (7+ / 0-)

      was supposed to be accomplished by the binding of economic interests. Military operations are most certainly not one of its major purposes. NATO was established for that purpose.

      •  The EU has a significant security competency... (0+ / 0-)

        and security was one of the three pillars up to Lisbon.

        It even has an armed forces treaty that established the European Gendarmerie Force:

        •  The Euro Gendamres (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bruh1, Kickemout, JesseCW

          will be landing at the Hamptons just any day now.

          •  You can be glib... (0+ / 0-)

            the norm at DKos it seems, but it does not change the fact that your statement was inaccurate.

            Increasingly, the EU police and security interest will take hold.

            Do you deny that this was a pillar of the EC and is a competency of the EU?

            •  Military security (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              corvo, Enzo Valenzetti, lotlizard, JesseCW

              is not a competency of the EU. That function was always placed with NATO. They are separate organizations, with NATO being a creature of the US.

              •  You are 100% wrong. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Lib Dem FoP
                Pillars of the European Union

                The Treaty of Maastricht (1992) introduced a new institutional structure which remained until the entry into force of the Treaty of Lisbon. This institutional structure was composed of three “pillars”:

                    the Community pillar, which corresponded to the three Communities: the European Community, the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom) and the former European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) (first pillar);
                    the pillar devoted to the common foreign and security policy, which came under Title V of the Treaty on European Union (second pillar);
                    the pillar devoted to police and judicial cooperation in criminal matters, which came under Title VI of the Treaty on European Union (third pillar);


                The Treaty of Lisbon abolished this pillar structure in favour of creating the European Union (EU). Within the EU, decisions are taken in accordance with a procedure of common law, called the “ordinary legislative procedure”. However, the intergovernmental method continues to apply to the Common Foreign and Security Policy.


                In a joint declaration by both the EU and NATO during 2002, a previously slightly confused relationship was clarified under a number of major headings that included partnership, mutual cooperation and consultation, equality and due regard for the autonomy of both the EU and NATO, plus reinforcing and developing the military capability of both organisations.


                That link also shows the current EU military operations.

                In other words, you are not just glib, but spreading disinformation.

                •  Pillar is a meaningless term (0+ / 0-)

                  when it comes to military power. The US calls the shots with NATO.

                  •  NATO is NOT the EU, however... (0+ / 0-)

                    despite that you seem to want this to be about NATO and the big bad US hegemony of NATO.

                    The states that created the EC and EU did and still do see a significant security component that is autonomous from NATO.

                    That is a fact. To YOU pillar may be meaningless, but you do not speak for them, their treaties do.

                    •  The issue addressed in this diary (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      congenitalefty, JesseCW

                      is that the EU in no way poses a military threat to the national security of the US. I'm not interested in the splitting of hairs that are completely unrealated to that matter.

                      •  I replied to an assertion YOU made... (0+ / 0-)

                        in the comments that was, in my opinion, disinformation!

                        I supplied sourcing to show this, as opposed to your glib and conclusory remarks.

                        And I left a comment related to the diary elsewhere.

                        Who cares if the EU poses a military threat to us? You take the intelligence where you find it.

                        I seriously doubt that this will have the dire effect attributed, except now the people who did not like us in the first place will be more circumspect.

          •  The arguments are increasing bizare (6+ / 0-)

            as far as juistifying the US action here

            Its almost like they have a vested interest in spin

            •  Masks are definitely slipping. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JesseCW, katiec, Tam in CA

              When did Democrats in Idaho stop nominating straight talking, hard hitting characters like Frank Church and winning elections?

              Frank Church, a guy who was actually interested in getting to the bottom of things and informing the public? A guy who wouldn't play ball with any Washington bipartisan coverup crew?

              Watch this Bill Moyers documentary made during the Reagan administration, called Secret Government: The Constitution in Crisis.

              Then reflect on the present moment again. We're Democrats, this is Daily Kos. Isn't it creepy to hear echoes here of Haldeman, Ehrlichman, and Ollie North?

              The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war. ☮ ♥ ☺

              by lotlizard on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 01:32:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Second Richard's statements (7+ / 0-)

      The focus of the EU is its economic interests, and that is why there is often a lot of tension- the economic interests of Germany are not the same as Greece

      I am surprised given the last 5 years that anyone would say otherwise

      •  Not convinced? (0+ / 0-)

        Let me quote you a section of a speech made in Zurich during the immediate aftermath of WWII (September 1946) by another of the EU Founding Fathers.

        We must all turn our backs upon the horrors of the past. We must look to the future. We cannot afford to drag forward across the years that are to come the hatreds and revenges which have sprung from the injuries of the past. If Europe is to be saved from infinite misery, and indeed from final doom, there must be this act of faith in the European Family and this act of oblivion against all the crimes and follies of the past. Can the free peoples of Europe rise to the height of these resolves of the soul and of the instincts of the spirit of man? If they can, the wrongs and injuries which have been inflicted will have been washed away on all sides by the miseries which have been endured. Is there any need for further floods of agony? Is the only lesson of history to be that mankind is unteachable? Let there be justice, mercy and freedom. The people have only to will it, and all will achieve their hearts' desire.

        I am going to say something that will astonish you. The first step in the recreation of the European Family must be a partnership between France and Germany. In this way only can France recover the moral and cultural leadership of Europe. There can be no revival of Europe without a spiritually great France and a spiritually great Germany. The structure of the United States of Europe, if well and truly built, will be such as to make the material strength of a single state less important. Small nations will count as much as large ones and gain their honour by their contribution to the common cause.

        Winston Churchill

        Like many right wing Europhobes in the UK, you focus on the one aspect that was seen as a means to the end of enshrining peace in Europe. The real picture is much different.

        We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

        by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 12:04:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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