Skip to main content

View Diary: Cairo! 'Massive' doesn't do it justice. (158 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  You seem in rather a lot of hurry (9+ / 0-)

    tp believe that democracy etc. aren't going to happen.

    Democratization tends to take generations.  It starts off pretty minimal and conservative and grows more liberal over time.

    The Mubarakh regime was reactionary in its final phases.  The military regime was/is Rightist.  Mursi got elected to be center Right and shifted further right rather than left once in power.  These demonstrations are proof that the population wants him to move more left.  

    These revolutions, uprisings, whatever are in fact about freedom and democracy.  The bigotries of falsely high or falsely low expectations is commonly applied around here by people with suspect motives.  Democratization is an evolutionary phenomenon, not a creationist one as you suppose.

    •  As a champion of the al-Nusra Front (0+ / 0-)

      your chiming in with paeans to "democracy" ring mighty hollow.  You DO grasp this, no?

      "You may very well think so, I could not possibly comment." ~ Francis Urquhart, pragmatic political philosopher

      by ActivistGuy on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 05:58:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

        I just don't see al-Nusra as the supposedly insurmountable Just-As-Bad-As-Assad obstacle to democratization you and some others like to pretend they are.  

        •  Guess you haven't been keeping up on al-Raqqah (0+ / 0-)

          There is a very big pushback from the local people against how Al-Nusra is running things in its "liberated" territories.
          Hear about the kid shot in front of his parents for "blasphemy"? The anti-al-Nusra demonstrations? The Syrian people liked them when they drove out Assad's army -- they do not like them telling them how to run their lives.

          Ash-sha'b yurid isqat an-nizzam!

          by fourthcornerman on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 02:50:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  OK, I'm opting out of this discussion b/c (0+ / 0-)

        I don't know nearly enough about Egypt's internal politics to say anything of value. killjoy's statement above, on the face of it, sounded reasonable so I rec'd it. But your comment made it clear to me I don't know enough to know whether to rec things or no! So I'll just be listening from here on out. :-)

        Sorry if I unintentionally rec'd something which is anti-democracy, but I don't know enough to be able to tell whether I did or not. Certainly the people in the streets in Cairo have my best wishes.

        Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 05:10:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  AG is a purist (0+ / 0-)

          who is willing to keep Assad in power in Syria if al Nusra is involved in his toppling.   Because Moscow-backed media tell him that al Nusra and few singleton rebel atrocities in a country full of them is worse than Assad's killing of several thousand civilians a week to keep the opposition-backing population cowed and in fear of their lives.  Or, he's just not a strong backer of democratization.

          It was off topic of him.  The power of al Nusra is also substantially overrated.  It's a p.r. wedge issue to split rebellion supporters employed by people who don't want it to succeed.

          •  What I'm worried about in Syria (0+ / 0-)

            is not a few atrocities--as you rightly point out, Assad has committed far more, not that any atrocities are really OK, but nonetheless, Assad is a bigger problem in that regard--but the apparent disorganization, sometimes to the point of chaos, on the other side. I worry that the U.S. is just going to assume that they know what's what and go in there with a heavy handed knee jerk reaction before they really understand what's happening. Because what I heard--quite possibly wrong--is that even people on the ground there are not always sure how the alliances are holding up, or even, sometimes, what faction a given person or group serves.

            then you throw in McCain getting his picture taken with a guy responsible for kidnapping 11 people and I think, Oh, God, we're bumbling in to a situation we don't understand full bore again, and it's going to lead to nothing good.

            Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 10:32:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site