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View Diary: Cairo! 'Massive' doesn't do it justice. (158 comments)

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  •  You're Right (3+ / 0-)
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    Athenian, lunachickie, hoplite9

    "Fascists" as you would like to preserve the purity of the word were a bunch of naive statists compared to ruling circles in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the United States.  

    Strictly speaking neither Eastasia or Oceana as Orwell described them were fascist states.

    Rather than fetishization of Roman columns and the grandeur of State sponsored train stations, we have total information awareness, character profiles of vast portions of the population.  And corporate rule.

    Call it what you will, it sucks.  It is kind of fascist in that the security apparatus of the state is paramount, and that corporations rule, and that the coalition is mainly in place to forestall leftism.

    What label would you like to put on it?  Fascism works for me, just as "Stalinism" works for a top-down "Fordist" way of doing business.  The masses stifled and shut up after the apparatchiki have decided.

    When we speak of "Leninist" are we limited to talking of methods of overthrowing Kautsky?

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 07:37:29 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  re: Fascism (0+ / 0-)

      More specifically, fascism is a form of government formed when revolutionary upheaval from below leads the capitalist class to support a radical right revolutionary response that physically demolishes all organizations of the working class and political opposition. Physically smashing means physically smashing. Jackboots destroying all political parties, trade unions, etc. i.e. Italy under Mussolini, Spain under Franco and Germany under Hitler.

      There may be elements in Egypt who would go to this extreme and be planning it, but the current government has clearly not dismantled civil society, or these protests would not be possible.

      It is not fetishism to be clear on what things mean, it is knowing history so we don't repeat it. Authoritarianism and dictatorship are not the same thing. It takes different means to face them both.

      •  So (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lunachickie, hoplite9

        The mass uprising of the sixties did lead the capitalist class to support a radical right revolutionary response.  Have you heard of the Koch  brothers?  Have you heard of the Heritage Foundation?  Have you heard of the new methods of crowd control?

        Internment of Japanese Americans.

        How about drone-strike assassinations?  Snatch and grab operations?  Torture?  Gitmo?

        How does the assassination of Fred Hampton and George Jackson fit?  Or the massive police presences at Occupy Wall Street, the long prison sentences for people who take direct action against nuclear war facilities, the massive arrest-detention operations that target opposition leaders around every NATO conference, every Group of 8 meeting, every political convention.  Cops with nets.  

        Did you read Zeitoun?  How they had cyclone fence pens set up in New Orleans when they couldn't do anything else?

        Instead of jackboots we have tennis shoes and hiking boots.  Is that the critical distinction that makes it "not-fascism?"

        Is it only fascism if they use 1930's style weapons?  If they use barbed wire instead of razor wire?  If the uniforms are made out of wool instead of microfibers?

        I understand that cyclone fencing wasn't invented when Mussolini or Hitler were in power.

        Does the presence of cyclone fence and plastic nets mean that it can't be fascism?

        How about the fetishiszation of white working class Archie Bunkers, Christian dominionists?  The fetishization of gun culture?

        Perhaps we can call it a special kind of fascism.  How about "friendly fascism?"

        This aggression will not stand, man.

        by kaleidescope on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 08:54:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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