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View Diary: Trust And The Consequences Of Spying On Your "Friends". Now With Extra GWB (135 comments)

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  •  How do you know? (0+ / 0-)

    Are you some expert in European intel practices?

    Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

    by Sky Net on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 04:31:42 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  How do YOU know? n/t (10+ / 0-)

      American Television is a vast sea of stupid. -xxdr zombiexx

      by glitterscale on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 04:49:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Since when (6+ / 0-)

      were you?

      You have yet to address the issue of resources available for these activities.

      Paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. You step out of line, the man come and take you away. - S. Stills

      by ask on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 04:56:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Those Europeans (0+ / 0-)

        They're so cute and cuddly.  They'd nevery spy or do anything nefarious.

        Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

        by Sky Net on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 05:31:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  ÄÄÄHHM and your point is (8+ / 0-)

          we are the good germans in every discussion i hear ín the anglosaxon world about overacting security apparatuses or democraty
          maybe you should get used to be called the good american for
          the next decade (if you are lucky)
          but i guess you will wear that badge with honor and pride

        •  That's what I thought (6+ / 0-)

          no substance, just trolling. Good day to you!

          Paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. You step out of line, the man come and take you away. - S. Stills

          by ask on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 05:43:50 AM PDT

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        •  They are not our enemies (13+ / 0-)

          We've been told over and over that the resources that have been expended on the NSA are for national security and protection from terrorism. There is NO reason, none, that we should expend national security resources bugging the offices of the EU. They may be economic competitors but they are not countries that support terrorism. For fuck's sake, they're supposed to be our allies.

          The only reason we would be bugging the EU offices is for economic espionage. So our tax dollars are spent trying to give our corporations a leg up on their global competition. pffft.

          Whatever it is you think the EU is doing, you have no proof of it. They don't seem to have the budget for it and they certainly don't seem to have the capacity for it. I can't believe you'd seriously assert that the EU is bugging Congressional offices. That's the direct parallel. Is that what you're saying?

          "Compassion is the radicalism of our time." ~ Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama -7.88, -6.21

          by Siri on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 05:51:17 AM PDT

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          •  You outline the answer to (0+ / 0-)

            the question when you include "National Security" in the justifications. Which of course our government uses too, often and without much in the way of description.

            One must consider the ACTUAL definition of the term "National Security" in order to realize it's not about military might and spying on 'enemies' or potential 'enemies' in the world. That sort of thing is wholly encompassed by the Department of Defense, which has its own spies as well as the NSA. Those are big tools in the quest for "National Security," but they're still just tools. Will always remain so in this country until and unless there occurs a military coup d'etat which serves to place the DoD in charge of the whole of "National Security." This may already have happened, of course, but we haven't been informed yet.

            Because "National Security" also involves Wall Street's money-mills, the Fed and all other private and public banks, the economy at large and our place in the world system. The successful competitive edge for our world-dealing corporations. All diplomatic missions in relation to other nations. Etc., etc. The only things our government and its perpetual bureaucracies do NOT consider "National Security" are the success/security of our citizens, their protection from crime and physical harm in their homes/communities, their access to decent health care, their adequate provision in old age, the overall state of families and children, public education, fair wages and labor participation in the marketplace, and all other purely domestic concerns about our existence, relative comfort or ability to provide for ourselves, our ways of life and our day to day internal security.

        •  You're a weak troll. (6+ / 0-)

          Quantity over quality these days, it seems.

          collards, meat, butter, sourdough, eggs, cheese, raw milk

          by Tirge Caps on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 06:51:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm surprised your sidekick trolls aren't out (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kharma, DeadHead

          with you. You flying solo today Sky Net?

          "Cute and cuddly." Now that's an insult. /eesh

          Your manliness just reeks across the toobz.


          A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit.

          by bronte17 on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 08:43:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  The Chinese don't control the world's (6+ / 0-)

      Internet backbone, so no, they don't do this.  It's logistically impossible.  You can't pull this, "They do it too!" shit.

      However, the way things are going, some European countries are already talking about how they maybe need to start their own separate Internet with better security from the US.  There was a dairy about this.  From the point of view of EU corporations who must worry about their own corporate security, an alternative to the US Internet with tightened security makes a good idea.  And it would generate a lot of new EU jobs and tech.

      This is why we can't have nice things in the US, I guess.

      •  That is what I thought was going to happen. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kharma, happymisanthropy

        When the rest of the world got up in arms last week, it struck me that Full Spectrum Dominance outside of the confines of a finite planet, won't work.

        They will just change the venue - make an internet that wouldn't be as easy to control as this current iteration.

        Kind of made me laugh, you know? One of those unknown unknowns that they should have totally known about.

        Not that hard to follow it logically, you know?

        Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

        by k9disc on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 09:14:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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