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View Diary: Democrats and silos: What to fight for? Hint—everything (200 comments)

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  •  Whatever truthful message works. But it... (7+ / 0-)

    ...should not be forgotten that plenty of Democrats, plenty of progressives don't put the environment high on their priority list unless it connects with jobs. Getting the message across that the environment and the economy are not too separate entitites would help, but too many folks who are good on other important matters on the progressive agenda just don't get that.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 12:31:36 PM PDT

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    •  Exactly (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jgnyc, AoT, mightymouse

      No need to hide the jobs light under the environmental bush.

      this reminds me of the criticism I would receive for arguing that torture is not effective.

      I was told that should not matter.

      I responded but for the politics is does.

      •  Armando, as long as the jobs materialize (7+ / 0-)

        and are at a good living wage, and as long as people are trained to do them so they can actually get these jobs and earn the decent living wage, it won't matter if I call them "Purple Fandango Tutu" jobs.

        The environment is not a bush. You're buying into this whole notion that the problem is that our choice of messaging is "too hippy" or "too left." There are two reasons this is wrong: 1) the American people want good jobs with decent wages, pretty much no matter what, and 2) the media will make whatever you call your policy, project or politician into something "too far left," no matter what. If Romneycare didn't teach us that, I don't know what will.

        Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 01:46:01 PM PDT

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      •  How about if we torture (0+ / 0-)

        Republicans until they give us good jobs?

        "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

        by bryduck on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 09:03:24 AM PDT

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    •  21st century industry will be "green" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Armando, kj in missouri

      because it's really good for business. And, initially, a jobs program. Rather then being the Greenpeace eco-warriors our programs should be boring really good ideas that just happen to lower the carbon footprint because it's good for the business at hand.

      We have an INNOVATION GAP with the Chinese (not really but sell the sizzle not the steak). They have faster trains, they are jump starting solar because the government is investing. Let's Rebuild America for the 21st Century (tm)

      Grey candidates in suits talking jobs for American families might chip off some of the other side. Because if we don't chip off some of the other side we're waiting around to see if all the demographic optimism comes true for the next decade. The ecology is non-linear and, I hope, more resilient than worst case scenarios, but ocean acidity is worrisome near term and carbon, fossil fuel, fraking etc are going to take a long time to restructure. Sooner is better for a post industrial America and we have to break through the tribal barriers or it won't be sooner.

      If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

      by jgnyc on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 12:50:34 PM PDT

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      •  We'll see. One big problem is that we've just ... (10+ / 0-)

        ...wasted four-and-a-half years during which upgrading our dilapidated infrastructure with green replacements could have been accomplished with cheap borrowed money thanks to the Fed's downward pressure on interest rates, something that  (despite the first quarter's 1.8% annualized GDP growth) seems destined to no longer be the case.

        The idea of bolstering the economy with green jobs is not exactly new. We were talking about this in the late '70s. And by "we," I mean that literally in this case. I was then at the Solar Energy Research Institute (now NREL), and we often noted that the new industries coming from renewables would provide lots of good jobs and a thriving export market if the United States was the leader in the field, which, at the time it was even though solar cells and wind turbines were primitive and incredibly expensive by today's standards.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 01:30:35 PM PDT

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        •  yeah the low interest rates are a missed moment (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kj in missouri, Noodles, lotlizard

          Although to the entrenched interests that may be a feature not a bug as when the civic will comes together they'd rather have it financed at higher rates.

          Green jobs isn't a new idea. I was bringing it up in the context of focusing electorally on jobs - with the green along for good business - instead of the security state or culture war issues. Obviously the blogosphere can walk and chew gum at the same time  but the imagery of common sense technocrats makes more sense to me than crusading culture and economic warriors. Granted that's exactly the image that the bland center and center right of our party work but I think/hope progressives could get more mileage down ticket as we may have slightly more moral credibility with Jane Thevoter not that that's a very high bar.

          If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

          by jgnyc on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 02:37:15 PM PDT

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      •  The tribal barriers we have to worry about (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        congenitalefty

        aren't the conservative voters as much as the people who control the big money that needs to be invested in the changes.

        Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 01:47:01 PM PDT

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    •  Agree, they're linked (0+ / 0-)

      Back in the day, Veep Al Gore made a good casefor that.

      "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being in DC."

      by Betty Pinson on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 08:21:34 PM PDT

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