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View Diary: Democrats and silos: What to fight for? Hint—everything (200 comments)

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  •  I'm refering to a recent study (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Armando, AoT

    no link sorry too lazy and harried but it was on the front page around here - that showed there was a reverse effect with light bulbs. If conservatives were just shopping just on cost effective they chose a certain light bulb, if the bulb was (accurately) labeled 'better for the environment' or 'save the planet' etc ... they bought the other one. The tribal tug of not giving the hippies any victories outweighed self interest.

    Another thing, and this has always been flame bait but here goes: retire the "one percent" thing. It was only ever preaching to the choir and some of us always found it annoying and not good meme starting. As Krugman pointed out the math points more at the .01 percent, a friend says it's about the 26 percent who got theirs and are afraid of losing it, and "Wall Street" says it much better. Remember the goal here is to chip off some of the right wing working class base (and I understand the phrase "working class" is not good advertising). Because without a significant electoral presence we'll never get anything real accomplished and without breaking through their tribal barriers the numbers are too depressing to realistically contemplate.

    If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

    by jgnyc on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 12:38:05 PM PDT

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    •  Actually, the right wing working class (6+ / 0-)

      seems to have gotten the idea that the government and the banks are working together in a corrupt way that screws over the working man.

      The 1% works fine for me--not with every audience, of course, but no meme works fine with everybody.
      It says something real, and people grasp it.  And I'm not sure what you mean by preaching to the choir, when there was a pretty eclectic group of people out at those encampments and events--everybody from Ron Paul supporters to left-wing Democrats to socialists to independents who weren't particularly political (in their minds anyway) but who had just lost their homes or their jobs.

      Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 01:19:51 PM PDT

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      •  I've watched Reagan Democrats laugh about it (0+ / 0-)

        all night long. "We are the 99 percent" when Occupy, for better or worse, read to them (and me FWIW) as the usual suspects.

        > Ron Paul supporters to left-wing Democrats to socialists

        See above. And there's nowhere near enough of that demographic to sway elections.

        If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

        by jgnyc on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 02:46:44 PM PDT

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        •  well, when the Reagan Democrats lose (5+ / 0-)

          their houses, they might feel differently about people trying to help them save their houses. Or maybe not.

          But we've been chasing "the Reagan Democrat" since they voted for Reagan, mostly by trying to sound conservative. And I don't see that at the end of the day that that's put us in a good position, as progressives. We have less power than we've ever had.

          I suggest advocating for the preservation of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, the creation of jobs, and making Wall St stop messing with people's mortgages--and hopefully bringing them to justice under the law. And hammering those points and sticking to them. If the Reagan Democrats don't come on board for that, they won't come on board for anything.

          Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 06:13:25 PM PDT

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          •  exactly (0+ / 0-)

            > advocating for the preservation of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, the creation of jobs, and making Wall St stop messing with people's mortgages

            And stop there. We win the culture war stuff anyway down the road and reap maximum benefit from it already. Don't balance the budget on the backs of America's seniors. That's a message that could get into the weeds next year.

            If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

            by jgnyc on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 08:08:13 PM PDT

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    •  that said, on *specific* issues (6+ / 0-)

      like trying to sell lightbulbs to people, I don't mind dropping pro-environmental stuff off the label. But selling people lightbulbs is different from selling them politicians or policies.  We've tried since 1988 to sell them politicians and policies by muting anything that sounds like it could be a hippy or be related to a hippy, and it has landed us in the shit, pretty much, economically, ecologically, and politically.

      Also, it ain't 1988 anymore, and I don't see the point in seeking to please the people whose influence is dwindling because too many people alive now couldn't care less about hippies because hippies are some weird thing their grandparents used to be--or because too many people now couldn't care less about Communism or Socialism as a bogeyman, because the Cold War ended 24 years ago--or because there are a lot more black and brown people being born than white people. Historically and demographically, this particular ship has sailed. Hippie-baiting isn't a threat anywhere except within the Democratic party, where it's used as a way to keep lefties in line. Outside, where the voters live, most of them don't give a damn.

      what they do give a damn about is decent-paying jobs, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, healthcare and, if they have kids, education.

      Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 01:28:13 PM PDT

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      •  because I don't think waiting another 15 years (0+ / 0-)

        for the hoped for demographic shift is a good idea.

        I think the left of center could get on the street (not the idiot or far left mind you - I mean the style of the current elected Progressive caucus) with more moral credibility on economic issues now, I mean for 2014.

        If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

        by jgnyc on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 02:49:45 PM PDT

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