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View Diary: Democrats and silos: What to fight for? Hint—everything (200 comments)

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  •  I don't think it is (12+ / 0-)

    It's a unique situation in many ways. I mean, we can't really have a national campaign of people coming out as being poor, or in a union, or whatever. That alone changes things. And the organizations involved in gay rights were rather often very much about their issue and their issue only. To the extent that HRC purposely excluded trans people from laws that protected gay people.

    Certainly, there are plenty of progressives who do have across the board support for these sort of things, but how many people that fought for marriage equality are just going to drop out now and not fight about voters rights? I know people who have fought this fight and refuse to talk about economic problems. The whole thing basically consisted in empowering organizations that were top down through activism and then those organizations getting the credit when the victory came.

    How many progressives fully supported HRC despite their horrible politics? I saw plenty of support for them here. And obviously there are plenty of other folks who are going to keep on fighting, but it's terribly convenient that the first in what is suppose to be a long line of victories came as a victory that helps white dudes.

    I'm just very skeptical about this whole "we'll totally help once we win our thing" plan. That has very much been the definition of focusing on one thing at a time.

    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

    by AoT on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 12:47:13 PM PDT

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    •  Then we need to keep thinking (4+ / 0-)

      about how to win on the other issues.

      •  Debt is one thing that is a commonality (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        congenitalefty, Mimikatz, mad cat

        and something that we are often "in the closet" about that is closely tied to class and also has a lot of shame around it.

        Maybe that's a starting point?

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 02:24:20 PM PDT

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        •  Losing Single Payer (4+ / 0-)

          Really set us back.  Can anyone defend the 55+ Medicaid Clawback?

          And what's so reprehensible about ObamaCare is that they force you into Medicaid. No options if that's how the eligibility plays out; if you want to risk a piece-of-crap policy so you can pass on your house to your kids, you can't do that. Yet another path to downward mobility! Of course, this only applies to the poorest, ObamaCare being ObamaCare.

          NOTE Yet one more reason why single payer Medicare for All is the only fair solution.

          Read through the comments and discover the clawback is the legacy of Bill Clinton with VP Al Gore breaking a tie to pass it.  Health care is no longer discussed other than occasional fluffing with ignores the real problems such as above.
          •  it isn't lost yet (1+ / 0-)
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            states are looking at it. The Oregon legislature just voted to study it.

            ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

            by James Allen on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 08:12:21 PM PDT

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          •  Expand the VA and use it as a model (1+ / 0-)
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            Ongoing conditions are a big part of the rising costs of healthcare and the VA mostly deal with that. When funded well and run well they have a good success rate. The southwest region is a one of the best and people there know it so it would go over well. I'd bet a lot of people in the south probably have a decent opinion of it too.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 08:16:00 PM PDT

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      •  Women's Issues (10+ / 0-)

        Women are getting more and more pissed.  Pissed about having their basic right's invaded.  It's mostly about birth control and abortion, but it has to do with power, control, and punishment of people who can be scapegoated.  Same basic abuse and bullying that underlies income inequality, voter suppression and racism, workers rights.  Women come in all colors ages and income brackets and they are getting more and more pissed and they can band together for a more just society, bringing along their male relatives and friends.  That's where I think the synergy is right now.  I live in Ohio and you should have seen the unlikely alliances between people that resulted in the annihilation of SB5.  People were PISSED and they got out, got together and kicked Kasich's ass (and a lot of them were Republicans, including some of my relatives, I was stunned).  There's that same energy potential brewing in response to the Republican war on women I think.    

        •  exactly. (3+ / 0-)
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          jbsoul, congenitalefty, AoT

          and it isn't all about Hillary as i think someone suggested above.  it's about "us" everyday women.  we are in year three of a coordinated attack via the states thanks to the teabaggers.  

          so yeah, speaking specifically and generally, women are 'in.'

          "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

          by kj in missouri on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 05:28:38 PM PDT

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      •  The win we need is to get the money out of (0+ / 0-)

        political campaigns. Having to count on wealthy benefactors that are sympathetic to an issue isn't going to do much for the issues in which the wealthy feel unaffected.

    •  The Middle Class are hurting too though (5+ / 0-)

      If we can 'radicalize' a decent percentage....

    •  Why not? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Armando, AoT, FarWestGirl, mightymouse
      [W]e can't really have a national campaign of people coming out as being poor, or in a union, or whatever.
      And isn't that was OWS was, in part, all about?

      Don't most of us know and love someone who is poor or who is a proud union member or who has been hauled into a not-always-just legal system or is a non-believer or muslim or disabled or female or has had an abortion or is transgendered or old, etc.? I could be a "knower" or a "knowee" in more than one of these categories.

      What I can't honestly be is untouched by any of these people because I am the 99%,  as are most progressives.

      Out with the gloomage - in with the plumage!

      by mikidee on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 01:22:13 PM PDT

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      •  I had a thought about getting poverty declared a (1+ / 0-)
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        disability to move poor people into a protected class.

        Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
        ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

        by FarWestGirl on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 02:25:21 PM PDT

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      •  Partially because being poor is something (0+ / 0-)

        that has some obvious class differences. Perhaps union people too. But it's very different than coming out as gay. In those cases it's a matter of people who are otherwise incredibly close to you learning something. Poverty is very visible already in this society.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 02:30:45 PM PDT

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    •  A whole bunch of white dudes? (1+ / 0-)
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      Come on now.

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