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View Diary: View From the Ground: Oakland City Workers' Strike Amidst BART Carclasym. (38 comments)

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  •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

    Paid for mostly by the poor and middle class in their respective cities, people who can't go on strike and are dependent on whatever the market offers for wages and benefits.

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 09:29:14 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Just because they don't have a union (3+ / 0-)

      yet doesn't mean other people can't have unions. Nor does it mean they can't go on strike. You say that like there's no way to form unions in the private sector.

      And yes, California has a fairly regressive tax code because the Neoliberals started their anti-tax jihad here and passed prop 13 so the state is stuck with a shitty tax situation that benefits the rich. And BART continues to raise fares even when it doesn't pay workers more.

      If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

      by AoT on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 09:43:38 AM PDT

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      •  It doesn't matter (0+ / 0-)

        Public unions are never justified, because there's never a justification for paying public employees more than similar private employees.

        If you had a situation where the private sector was 100% unionized, you still wouldn't need public unions because public employees would just jump ship to the superior private sector. The market would force increased public salaries.

        Besides, if it's so easy to set up high paying private union jobs why hasn't it already been done?

        In the current state of affairs, in any case, there are basically no private unions and few well paying opportunities for people with BART worker skill sets, so it's basically a lottery for who can get a BART job, with the losers subsidizing the winners by paying higher taxes or rider fares.

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 09:55:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sigh, you really don't (0+ / 0-)

          acknowledge reality do you?

          Besides, if it's so easy to set up high paying private union jobs why hasn't it already been done?
          I know you aren't an idiot so I'm going to assume that you are purposely ignoring the large number of private sector union jobs that exist and, even more so, the history of unions and how they have been undermined through neoliberalism.

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 10:38:08 AM PDT

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          •  Re (0+ / 0-)

            Again, irrelevant.

            The only question before us is: do you believe there is a justification for paying public workers more than their qualifications in the private sector would otherwise get them? And taking the extra to cover it out of private salaries?

            That's basically the core issue here. Even if all your theories about neoliberalism and other nefarious activities were true, it still wouldn't be a reason to pay public workers more than equivalent private ones. If public workers want to be paid more, they need to work to drive up private salaries.

            (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
            Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

            by Sparhawk on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 11:51:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  If it's irrelevant then why did you bring it up? (2+ / 0-)

              It obviously isn't irrelevant.

              And strong unions are the best way to bring up wages across the board, so I support strong unions. Higher public salaries will increase private sector salaries and put money into the economy.

              If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

              by AoT on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 12:04:13 PM PDT

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              •  Re (0+ / 0-)
                Higher public salaries will increase private sector salaries and put money into the economy
                They won't. They can't. If your economic views are based on this fiction, it's hard for us to have a conversation.

                (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
                Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

                by Sparhawk on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 07:58:54 PM PDT

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      •  Actually California has one of the most (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT, jpmassar

        progressive tax policies of the states.

        Same income tax rate for capital gains and dividends as ordinary income and a top tax rate of 13.3%.  Try to find another state that comes close to that.

        Sales tax does not apply to food purchased as groceries nor to rent, nor public transit.  There is even a renters tax credit.

        Keep in mind that California has a high concentration of poor people - so it has higher demands for public social spending and raising tax revenues.  While California has about 10% of the US population, it has about 35% of the people living below the Federal poverty level.

        The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

        by nextstep on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 12:20:22 PM PDT

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        •  In regards to property taxes (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar

          was more what I was thinking. The corporation are screwing the state out of tons of money with that one. It should have been reformed already.

          There is even a renters tax credit.
          I obviously haven't been paying enough attention when I do my taxes.

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 12:25:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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