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View Diary: UPDATED: Snowden Withdraws Russian Asylum Request, Most Countries Reject His Bid (101 comments)

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  •  The apologists cannot debate the NSA programs. (7+ / 0-)

    It is beyond their capability to do so. They know it is wrong, but since they've bought lock stock & barrel into this Administration, there's no way for them to debate it.

    Witness the ridiculous musings Melissa Harris-Perry, Ed Schultz, Lawrence O'Donnell, and the rest of the Villagers supposedly of the Left. They're defending the Institution. They have no other choice, their livelihoods and access demand that they bow their heads and obey.

    And the defenders in the blogosphere are even more embarrassing. They have a choice to challenge power, but choose to defend an Institution that has all but abandoned them in pursuit of corporate money.

    Remember, these are the same people who will defend the Trans Pacific Partnership, Keystone XL, and the Atlantic Trade Partnership. Because where else ya gonna go?

    The Grand Bargain must be stopped at all costs to protect the 99%.

    by cybrestrike on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 06:44:31 AM PDT

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    •  Yeah (6+ / 0-)

      funny how that's been unfolding. Glad I'm not the only one to have noticed...

      Remember, these are the same people who will defend the Trans Pacific Partnership, Keystone XL, and the Atlantic Trade Partnership. Because where else ya gonna go?
    •  This Pontificating is Nauseating. (12+ / 0-)

      So many here don't accept that people have 'concern' levels different than theirs (as if their outrage has helped ANYTHING in the past 40+ years) that they NOW preach that a perceived lack of interest is now McCarthyism/Apologism.

      I was gonna listen to that, but then, um, I just carried on living my life. - Aldous Snow

      by GoGoGoEverton on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 06:48:23 AM PDT

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    •  lol (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GoGoGoEverton, vcmvo2, Patate

      The apologists.
      Says the worshipper.
      Christ this shit is old.

      We consume the carcasses of creatures of like appetites, passions and organs with our own, and fill the slaughterhouses daily with screams of pain and fear. Robert Louis Stevenson

      by Christin on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 07:59:29 AM PDT

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    •  You claim on one hand to want a "debate"... (14+ / 0-)

      ...and then, on the other hand, dismiss the opinions of anyone who is not 100% "NSA sucks, this is terrible" by accusing them of being "apologists," shills, or dupes.

      So which is it? Do you actually want a debate, in which everyone comes in with the assumption that others are arguing in good faith, takes the views of those who disagree with them into consideration, and looks at the issue in a nuanced and reasonable fashion, or do you want to rail against the "apologists," shills, and dupes?

      Because you can't have both. This discussion started several weeks ago with the accusation that those who weren't 100% against any NSA surveillance are "good Germans"—an accusation that was recommended and praised by many who now wonder why there's no "debate."

      Beginning with the presumption that those who disagree with you could not possibly actually believe what they are writing, and that the only reason they're writing it is because either their motivations are compromised, their emotions are compromised, or they've been duped, is not the way to start a "debate." It's the way to start a crappy argument, a rant-off, or a "rox/sux" piefight, but not a debate.

      If you want an actual debate, you're going to have to start with the assumption that those who don't share your views on this issue are doing so in good faith, and have what they understand to be good reasons for their position.

      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

      by JamesGG on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 08:02:35 AM PDT

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