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View Diary: Well, Is This Enough to Get Zimmerman's Lawyer Disciplined? (151 comments)

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  •  Which other witness has been treated the (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mjbleo, ericlewis0, rubyr, emsprater

    way Rachel Jeantel was by Don West?
    I save you trouble by providing the answer for you - NONE!
    No other!

    2)

    It is his job to "bully" that witness. It's also his job to use whatever tone he thinks will best undermine her credibility.
    And I am free to criticize him as I see fit. Disagree with "diarist" all you want, I am but exercising my right to free speech.

    3) He is a piss poor lawyer if the only thing he can do to defend his client is bully a young girl and then go and lick ice-cream in triumph. Not only a piss poor lawyer but an even worse human being.
    One of the first things I learned in my Dale Carnegie courses is that a drop of honey catches more flies than a bottle of vinegar.
    He would do well to learn and then practice that principle.

    Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

    by JoanMar on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 06:09:08 PM PDT

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    •  Ok, I never suggested that (6+ / 0-)

      anyone should lock you up for your opinion. I don't desire to shut down your right to free speech; only to point out that your opinion is unreasonable and lacks the sort of calculated thought that makes opinions reasonable.

      And frankly, unless you are an attorney, or you've studied trial advocacy, or you're in some other way qualified to offer an opinion on the dos and don'ts of defending a murder defendant, then your opinion on West's lawyering is about like my opinion on the proper methods for heart surgery. You may be, but your posts indicate a lack of understanding for what it is a defense attorney does.

      To put it succinctly: in a case like this, if those seeking justice for the deceased "like" you, then you are probably not doing your job as a criminal defense attorney.

      And just for posterity, I must point out that in your rambling there, you've betrayed your point about his trial lawyering with this statement:

      Not only a piss poor lawyer but an even worse human being.

      It's clear you think Don West is a bad person. And that's fine. But you're pretending to have some legitimate gripe with the way he's conducting cross-examination. You just think, in this particular case, with these particular facts, there should be no person willing to defend Zimmerman. Because you're asking the defense attorney to serve as a lapdog for the state.

      What you need to understand, and what I see on an everyday basis, is it's too often people who look like Trayvon Martin (young black kids) who get SCREWED because their lawyers are lapdogs for the state. And if those kids - the ones I help defend every single day - are going to get a fair trial, then even people like George Zimmerman are entitled to a spirited defense.

      He is a piss poor lawyer if the only thing he can do to defend his client is bully a young girl
      Once again, when this witness is put on the stand by the state, it is his job to rip her to shreds, make her look, seem, and feel stupid, and, if possible, make her break down on the stand in such a way that her testimony is unhelpful to the state. There are rules which restrict how you can and cannot do this; it's the DA's role to point out any rule breaking, and it's the judge's job to put a stop to it. It is the defense attorney's job to push the envelope as far as he possibly can. Anything else would be a betrayal of his duty to his client.

      I'm sorry this concept is difficult for you. I probably would not be able to represent Zimmerman because I would have a difficult time giving him the kind of defense he is entitled to. I got into this business to protect young minority kids from getting railroaded, not to protect people who railroad young minority kids. But I am glad there is someone who will give Zimmerman that defense, because if the sanctity of a fair trial goes even further to shit, I can assure you that I know precisely which demographic group will be forced to pay in states like Florida when all is said and done.

      "We forward in this generation, triumphantly."

      by Grizzard on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 06:23:16 PM PDT

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      •  OK Grizzard, I am reading no further than this: (3+ / 0-)
        And frankly, unless you are an attorney, or you've studied trial advocacy, or you're in some other way qualified to offer an opinion on the dos and don'ts of defending a murder defendant, then your opinion on West's lawyering is about like my opinion on the proper methods for heart surgery.
        You don't get to talk to me like that, bro.
        Funny, I have read your diaries and have always respected you. I think I am even following you.
        This elitist, arrogant attitude of yours won't play with me.
        In the immortal words of Rachel Jeantel, "Got it?"
        Thank you very much.

        Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

        by JoanMar on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 06:29:20 PM PDT

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        •  Just for the record (3+ / 0-)

          you used 2 exclamation marks in your first three sentences in response to me. If you didn't want a testy response, you shouldn't have elevated the dialogue by doing the written equivalent of "yelling" in your original response.

          I'm responding in kind to the hostile tone that you've brought not only to me, but to other people who have presented reasonable counter-arguments in opposition to your diary.

          "We forward in this generation, triumphantly."

          by Grizzard on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 07:15:18 PM PDT

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          •  I know you live in an adversarial world, but (0+ / 0-)

            sometimes it's best to leave it alone. But you know that.

            I really posted to tell you about another West trick. Today they had a short hearing about questioning a State's witness. He's a professor who is spending part of his summer hiking. He said he would be unavailable during the trial. It was decided awhile back that they would depose him before he left. That was decided one day, with the deposition schedule for the very next day. West didn't show up. He said he forgot. So now the guy's out in the NM desert (so am I and it's really hot), and they have to figure out how to question him. There's more to being an attorney than just being good at destroying witnesses. West's ethics are questionable. And it seems to be rubbing off on his daughters.

            •  I don't disagree (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HappyinNM

              I've written a number of times in this thread and elsewhere that lots of the things West does outside of the courtroom are deplorable. I just take issue with the idea that he should be "nice" or even "respectful" with key witnesses of the state.

              And I think just because someone with questionable ethics engages in certain forms of trial strategy (like trying to rattle a star witness), that doesn't make that particular action unethical. It's not one of those deals where everything he touches turns to rot.

              In reading much of the trial criticism of this attorney, I'm left wondering: what do you expect him to do? And the more salient question of "if he were your lawyer, what would you want him to do?"

              "We forward in this generation, triumphantly."

              by Grizzard on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 10:11:56 PM PDT

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              •  I have a degree in finance so I took two (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                emsprater, SoCalSal

                business law classes and contemporary legal issues class. So I know just about enough to be dangerous. I have some understanding of the adversarial nature of trials, but I think some attorneys risk turning off the jury when they attack a witness. This young woman may not be your ordinary witness, but she held her own with that bully. Had she not, those mamas on that jury may not have appreciated West destroying her. She was obviously very fragile. He thought by bringing her back for a second day, he could wear her down. But she came back stronger. So I'm not sure he did his client any favors. And another point---those jurors are sequestered. They probably didn't appreciate all the repetition, knowing that the longer he went on, the longer they would be separated from their lives.

      •  Maybe you should check yourself. If you are (2+ / 0-)

        the erudite human you seem to think you are, then show some
        respect for the diarist and other commenters. You cannot begin to know what is or is not "a difficult concept" for another human.  

        "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

        by rubyr on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 06:35:37 PM PDT

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      •  you don't need to be a chicken to (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JoanMar

        know a rotten egg.

        Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson. (-9.75 / -9.05)

        by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 06:54:08 PM PDT

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    •  I think the answer to your question about why (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cosette

      Ms. Jeantel was treated differently probably lies in the evidence she provided.  From what I can tell she has given the most consistently harmful of all of the testimony against Zimmerman.  So it wouldn't surprise me to see the defense lawyer try to discredit her the most.

      "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

      by stellaluna on Tue Jul 02, 2013 at 10:00:35 PM PDT

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