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View Diary: How Did Zimmerman Draw That Gun? (65 comments)

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  •  Answer ...... (12+ / 0-)

    before he confronted Martin he had already drawn it and had it in his hand.

    Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

    by emsprater on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 07:55:26 AM PDT

    •  That could be, but everything is still very (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      worldlotus, pollwatcher

      confusing.

      It seems unlikely that you would hit someone in the nose who was holding a gun on you.

      I'm still trying to figure out when/how the gun was pulled.  Clearly, it was NOT the way GZ described it.

      All fight-related injuries seem to be on GZ, none on Trayvon. GZ was trained in mixed Martial Arts (MMA). Why didn't he fight back more effectively?

      Perhaps because he had a gun he didn't need to punch.

      The closest witness, John Good, did see TM on top of GZ but left to call 911 before those final, plaintive screams on the lady's 911 call.

      Perhaps GZ did an MMA flip on TM after Good went inside, pulled the gun and shot.

      Some people fight fire with fire. Professionals use water.

      by Happy Days on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:18:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe he slid in the grass and hit his nose, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        emsprater, worldlotus, peglyn

        maybe it was self inflicted, maybe Trayvon got in a good punch before he was murdered. If Zimmerman had not pursued Martin, he would have gone back to the house and ate his candy and watched television or played video games or texted on his phone and woke up the next morning. He was not doing anything wrong and Zimmerman is just another bully cop wannabe ass. You remember that a man in Florida shot into a car of teenaged boys because the music was too loud, killing one of them? This is dangerous and shaky ground when the citizens of this country think they can shoot one another without consequences.

      •  I'm still not sure .... (0+ / 0-)

        Martin  struck Zimmerman in the nose, injuries or not.  Even so, your presumption would presume that Martin was able to 'see' the gun.  Zimmerman was wearing a jacket and could most likely have had the gun in hand and hand covered by the jacket.

        Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

        by emsprater on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:50:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Perhaps we will someday discover (0+ / 0-)

          Trayvon got in one good punch and then Zimmerman shot him-- not out of self-defense, but out of humiliation and rage. But we're unlikely to ever know what really happened. Zimmerman will be acquitted because prosecution won't be able to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

      •  The ballistics report shows that... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        johnny wurster

        TM's hoodie was separated from his body by a few inches. If he was on his back when shot, this would not be the case.

        If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

        by HairyTrueMan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:50:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Unless Zimmerman (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          amsterdam

          had clenched his other hand on the clothing and pulled it away from Martin as he sat atop of him, which is entirely possible if one person was trying to push another off him and the other was grabbing at anything to try to maintain control.  That also could explain the blood on Zimmerman's head appearing to trickle towards his face.

          Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

          by emsprater on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:59:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's possible. (0+ / 0-)

            But why would someone on top pull on the bottom person's clothing in an attempt to stay on top? Downward pressure would be the way to go in that situation, not pulling.

            If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

            by HairyTrueMan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:05:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Anything is possible if there (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HairyTrueMan

              really was a physical altercation.  That's one of the many items that makes me doubt Zimmerman's detailed account: in the heat of such a confrontation, no one can really say where their hands are the entire time, let alone where the other party's hands were, or how many punches were thrown or how many blows were taken.  It. just. doesn't .add. up.

              Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

              by emsprater on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:10:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I agree that anything is possible. (0+ / 0-)

                But the only (living) person who witnessed the whole thing is George Zimmerman.

                The jury will make a conclusion, factoring whether or not they believe GZ's statements, the ballistics report and the ME's report.

                If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

                by HairyTrueMan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:48:27 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  About the blood (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            johnny wurster

            Zimmerman has already said that after he fired the shot that he got on top of Trayvon, which could account for the blood trickling towards his face.

            And your explanation for the hoodie doesn't make sense to me.  Zimmerman might have had a handful of the hoodie to maintain control, but he would be pushing Trayvon down , and so I'm not sure you would see the equivalent of a gap of several inches between the hoodie and Trayvon's chest.

            Maybe we need a better re-creation to show how the physics of some of this would work.

            •  In a physical altercation ... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              amsterdam

              both sides push, pull, strike out and grab at anything and everything within reach in my experience.  I think way too much credit is being given to that space between Martin's clothing and his skin.  In this case, it could just be a lucky grab for Zimmerman that is being misinterpreted to his credit, unfortunately.

              I'm still wondering why there was none of Zimmerman's blood on Martin if he was on top that long and bleeding in such a manner.  It's not consistent with any assault victim I've ever seen during my 20+ years of EMS.

              Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

              by emsprater on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:23:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Zimmerman wasn't bleeding that much (0+ / 0-)

                And with the rain maybe even if there was a drop or two of blood it might have gotten washed away.

                Do we know how long Zimmerman claimed to be on top after the fight?  I don't remember, but my impression is that he was only on top very briefly before more people showed up and he stood up.

                •  Any significant amount of rain ... (0+ / 0-)

                  would make it all the more likely that some trace evidence of Zimmerman's blood would be somewhere on Martin's body.

                  Just sayin'.  Rain will not wash every trace of DNA out of fibers of clothing.

                  Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

                  by emsprater on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:32:33 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Do you know much about DNA testing? (0+ / 0-)

                    Not a snark question.  I am uncertain about something about it.

                    My understanding that for DNA testing you would look for a specific substance like a hair or a stain.  You would not simply take something like a hoodie or pants and somehow analyze the whole thing to find bit a stray bit of DNA.

                    Am I wrong in that understanding?

                    •  You might be right, but ... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Dirk McQuigley

                      try wetting a piece of clothing (as if it were wet by rain), prick your own finger and let a drop of blood drip onto the wet clothing.  The get a sprinkling can and 'rain' on the clothing and tell me the blood was washed away.  There are specific spectrums of light that are used on clothing forensically to look for missed ( not visible to the everyday eye) traces of blood and semen.  My theory is that any blood from Zimmerman, if it had ever come in contact with Martin's clothing or body, would have been detected.

                      And, no, I am not a DNA testing person.  But I find it odd they can build a DNA database from saliva swabs yet there's a claim that a light rain ( it was no downpour that night) would have washed away blood from clothing.

                      Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

                      by emsprater on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:44:14 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  There was extensive DNA testing (0+ / 0-)

                    done on their clothing. If you go to near the bottom of this page you can see exactly where blood was found and who it belonged to.

                    They also tested Trayvon's sleeves and cuffs and his fingernails for GZ DNA. No DNA foreign to Trayvon was found.

                    •  Testimony on Wednesday ... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Nova Land

                      after I made my comment shows the DNA expert stating that Zimmerman's DNA was found among blood on Martin's shirt worn under his hoodie.

                      Of course, the defense is disputing the evidence.

                      Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

                      by emsprater on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 04:41:16 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yep (0+ / 0-)

                        That spot is most likely a transfer spot, put there when GZ was frisking Trayvon while he was face down after he died.

                        They found a bloodstain that is probably from Trayvon on the cuff of GZ's right sleeve. They found GZ's blood on the grip of his gun. I think he frisked him with his right hand, transferring his blood on Trayvon's shirt and picking up Trayvon's blood on his right cuff at the same time.

                        •  'Frisked him' ...... (0+ / 0-)

                          but claimed he didn't 'know' Martin was dead, acted 'surprised' at the news, right on cue for someone who has his training in police 'work' .

                          Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

                          by emsprater on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 01:56:26 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

          •  The holes in the shirts (0+ / 0-)

            were 4 inches higher and 1 inch to the left of the entrance wound in the chest. The holes in the shirt were underneath the photobutton, but the photobutton was not damaged.

            The misalignment can be explained if GZ pulled both of Trayvon's shirt down with his left hand while shooting him with his right. He must also have nudged the photobutton to the side with his gun, in order for the shot to be under the photobutton.

      •  I think GZ used an MMA technique (0+ / 0-)

        to force Trayvon to the ground. He may have banged his head in the process.

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