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View Diary: Not Comfortable With Snowden Hero Worship on DKos (1496 comments)

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  •  No, of course it isn't simple (30+ / 0-)

    yet the view espoused here seems pretty basic and not prone to nuance--it seems to be "Snowdent Broke The Law. The End".

    There is most certainly lots of gray area here, but it's those of you who would defend this government because "Snowden Broke The Law" that seemingly refuse to acknowledge that, over and over again.

    If a law is illegal or unjust by definition of the standards of our own Constitution, or of Constitutional decency--or at the very least, regardless of the veracity of the specific law in question, "the rule of law" is thrown out with regard to the apprehension or incarceration of a suspected lawbreaker--then "punishment" is unjust. Period.

    Edward Snowden "ran" because he preferred not to be subject to PATRIOT Act "Law".

    Ask Thomas Drake or Bradley Manning what it means to be subjected to that travesty, because of what they did, trying to "Go Through Proper Channels" to alert our people to a government gone batshit insane. It is precisely there where the argument "Snowden Broke The Law" falls on its face.

    •  Actually, I am not "defending" the government (10+ / 0-)

      or anyone else . . . I am just asking the questions that trouble me . . .

      Where is the line?

      If we become ungovernable and all follow our hearts, will that really lead to the outcomes we say we want?

      Time will tell.

    •  Excuse me (6+ / 0-)

      but there's a whole lot of us defending INDIVIDUALS in the government because they're caught in a fucking shit storm of impossible choices with this array of not only foreign enemies bolstered by the Bush years but a huge number of domestic threats including a giant upsurge in the number of heavily armed militia groups.  

      While it's easy to spout purity slogans about how wrong it is to give up personal privacy for protection, not a one of you has to be in that seat in the White House when the next 9/11 occurs that may have been stopped by strong grey area surveillance.  The first President that happens to may be the guy that sees his party out of power for decades.  Our extraction from this insanity needs to be slow and delicate.

      We should all here be fighting a common enemy, the guys that dumped this situation onto us in the first place.  They are still a huge threat, own the media, many of the private companies that are contracting for security work, and are still heavily embedded in the military and government.  Obama is walking a tightrope and folks like you are playing right into their hands, trying to divide us.  Whatever your motivation, it's not going to work.

      •  Bush isn't President anymore. (5+ / 0-)

        Sorry. If Obama is walking a tightrope, it's a tightrope that he either signed off on or had forced on him.

        And this idea that those of us defending Mr. Snowden's actions and/or critical of the current administration over its handling of same are trying to divide you is, frankly, bullshit.

        And we've moved beyond "Gray Area Surveillance". Sorry.

        not a one of you has to be in that seat in the White House when the next 9/11 occurs that may have been stopped by strong grey area surveillance.

        (bangs head on desk)
        We have to let this administration continue the "shit all over the Constitution" meme started by his predecessor because 9/11!  
        That undermines our damned democracy. And it means The Terrarusts WIN. You can keep that nonsense.
        •  Well it's exactly what you're doing (0+ / 0-)

          is dividing us whether it's your intent or not so grow up a bit and come back into the real world where the rest of us reside.  

          9/11 was a big deal whether you like it or not, whether any of us do.  It told us the extent of the damage that could be done if we became incompetent at intelligence and we continually built enemies around the world.  The latter has slowed considerably.  Did you not read anything I said about the domestic threats?  A huge number of militia groups have sprung up - heavily armed.  I hope to hell they're being watched closely.

          •  So you're (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WheninRome, bsmechanic, Metro99

            so weak that an anonymous commenter on an Internet blog has unnerved you to the point of division with your fellow Kossacks?

            you're dividing us whether it's your intent or not
            What a pants-load. Dude, that's insulting to everyone here, regardless of who they find to be worthy of honor.

            And yes, I read your missive about domestic terrorism. As a matter of fact, I've been wondering why all this "Security Apparatus" that turns the Constitution on its head didn't catch the two domestic terrorists at the Boston Marathon. So perhaps you can take your pitiable scare tactics back to Red State, where they will no doubt be met with cries of "We don't need no stinkin' Constitution, We Got GUNS!"

      •  The division between those of you support (3+ / 0-)

        a surveillance state and who are obsessed with the infinitesimal risk of being killed by a terrorist and those of us who live our lives without that kind of crippling irrational fear are not small or shallow.

        They are deep enough that we do not belong in the same political party, and that one politician cannot represent both of us.

        Our goals are directly contradictory.  

        Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

        by JesseCW on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 12:15:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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