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  •  Manning's case is different from Snowden's (13+ / 0-)

    In one important regard. Manning is a member of the military and thus can be held under far more restrictive conditions than Snowden would be.

    If we get to the point in this country that a criminal defendant who isn't n the military can be locked away and never heard from again than we have far bigger problems than the programs that either Manning or Snowden exposed.

    •  Really? (10+ / 0-)

      So, you believe that Eighth Amendment protections suddenly disappear because you are a member of the military?

      •  Other Consititutional rights do (7+ / 0-)

        Starting with the first. It is true, military members do not enjoy exactly the same rights civilians do.

        “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

        by Catte Nappe on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 11:17:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Mindrayge, once someone signs (4+ / 0-)

        that dotted line to join the military they are essentially owned by the federal government. UCMJ law is far different than civilian law in that respect

        •  Except that (0+ / 0-)

          The 8th Amendment (in addition to UCMJ Article 55) does apply in court martial actions. Case after case can be found in military appellate decisions mentioning it.

          •  This debate is irrelevent anyway. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Catte Nappe, WakeUpNeo, Matt Z

            Because the statement by voracious that kicked it off is a bald faced lie.

            Manning IS able to write letters during confinement. He always has been.

            Please proceed, Governor.

            by USArmyParatrooper on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 02:28:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sorry about that. I thought I remembered (0+ / 0-)

              him being in solitary confinement and not allowed to even communicate with a lawyer. I thought in the beginning he was forced to be nude because they thought he was a suicide risk.

              I guess I was remembering something else.

              "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions.” --Lord Vetinari

              by voracious on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 04:21:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're wrong about that as well. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                WakeUpNeo, Matt Z

                This is what happens when people don't also fact check things that confirm their own beliefs.

                Lots and lots of misinformation about Manning's so-called torture.

                http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.info/...
                 

                A Typical Day for PFC Bradley Manning

                PFC Manning is currently being held in maximum custody. Since arriving at the Quantico Confinement Facility in July of 2010, he has been held under Prevention of Injury (POI) watch.

                His cell is approximately six feet wide and twelve feet in length.

                The cell has a bed, a drinking fountain, and a toilet.

                The guards at the confinement facility are professional. At no time have they tried to bully, harass, or embarrass PFC Manning. Given the nature of their job, however, they do not engage in conversation with PFC Manning.

                At 5:00 a.m. he is woken up (on weekends, he is allowed to sleep until 7:00 a.m.). Under the rules for the confinement facility, he is not allowed to sleep at anytime between 5:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. If he attempts to sleep during those hours, he will be made to sit up or stand by the guards.

                He is allowed to watch television during the day. The television stations are limited to the basic local stations. His access to the television ranges from 1 to 3 hours on weekdays to 3 to 6 hours on weekends.

                He cannot see other inmates from his cell. He can occasionally hear other inmates talk. Due to being a pretrial confinement facility, inmates rarely stay at the facility for any length of time. Currently, there are no other inmates near his cell.

                From 7:00 p.m. to 9:20 p.m., he is given correspondence time. He is given access to a pen and paper. He is allowed to write letters to family, friends, and his attorneys.

                Each night, during his correspondence time, he is allowed to take a 15 to 20 minute shower.

                On weekends and holidays, he is allowed to have approved visitors see him from 12:00 to 3:00 p.m.

                He is allowed to receive letters from those on his approved list and from his legal counsel. If he receives a letter from someone not on his approved list, he must sign a rejection form. The letter is then either returned to the sender or destroyed.

                He is allowed to have any combination of up to 15 books or magazines. He must request the book or magazine by name. Once the book or magazine has been reviewed by the literary board at the confinement facility, and approved, he is allowed to have someone on his approved list send it to him. The person sending the book or magazine to him must do so through a publisher or an approved distributor such as Amazon. They are not allowed to mail the book or magazine directly to PFC Manning.

                Please proceed, Governor.

                by USArmyParatrooper on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 05:11:18 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes, I just said that I was wrong (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  USArmyParatrooper, Matt Z

                  And I apologized for being wrong.

                  "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions.” --Lord Vetinari

                  by voracious on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 05:14:55 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm sorry if it came off as harsh. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Matt Z

                    I just see so much hyperbole and disinformation out there with anything military related it's really frustrating.

                    I respect the hell out of you for owning up to it. That shows you have integrity, a rare trait these days.

                    I want to remove the TR from your post but I prefer people say, "WTF, why did he TR him??" so they can see the truth.

                    Cheers.

                    Please proceed, Governor.

                    by USArmyParatrooper on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 05:18:08 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I have a question though. (0+ / 0-)

                      I just went back and reviewed some of Jesselyn Radack's diaries about this and I guess I misunderstood but in her diary How the US Military Tortured Bradley Manning

                      She mentions that he was kept in isolation for 23 hours a day and forced to be naked because even his underwear put him at a suicide risk.

                      She seems like a pretty reliable source and from reading the material this afternoon, it sounds like Manning only got to be in better quarters 9 months after his arrest and only because the trial started.

                      "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions.” --Lord Vetinari

                      by voracious on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 05:48:25 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Fair question. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        WakeUpNeo, sviscusi

                        He was in Maximum Custody and on Prevention of Injury Watch.

                        It is true inmates in Max Custody are in one man cells and only get out for exercise for an hour a day. They can also watch TV, read books, and have visitors on weekends and holidays.

                        It sucks, yes. But that's the nature of being both, in Max Custody and POI watch. It wasn't something special just for PFC Manning.

                        Mind you, his lawyer made very fair arguments for why he should not be in Max and on POI. But neither is hardly surprising. His most serious charge is aiding the enemy. It's a capital crime in the US military, so due to the seriousness of it they put him in Max.

                        As for POI, due to his history of outbursts and emotional instability, that doesn't surprise me either. The defense argued that the prison psychiatrist said he's a low risk for suicide, but responsibility for Manning's saftey - and thus ultimately the decision about POI is up to the Commander.

                        As for the underwear thing, Manning made a remark to a guard about hanging himself with his underwear. So they took his underwear at night, which meant he had to sleep naked. A couple nights later they gave him a tear free smock.

                        Keep in mind, I acknowledge that fair arguments can be made that being on Max + POI plus taking his underwear might have been an over reaction. But then fair arguments can be made the other way as well.

                        But when you see countless comments like "They're torturing Manning!" what picture do people actually get in their head?

                        Please proceed, Governor.

                        by USArmyParatrooper on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 06:08:21 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Thank you. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          sviscusi
                          But when you see countless comments like "They're torturing Manning!" what picture do people actually get in their head?
                          To read some of the hyperbolic comments here lately, you'd think Manning had battery cables hooked to his groin, or something --- and that Snowden should expect the same.
    •  MILITARY prison my friend....much much different (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      middleagedhousewife, WakeUpNeo
    •  Manning was 'seduced' by Wikileaks over time (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vicky

      which is why Julian Assange should be in the dock.

    •  What voracious said wasn't true anyway. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WakeUpNeo

      Of course he's allowed to write letters.

      Please proceed, Governor.

      by USArmyParatrooper on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 01:36:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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