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  •  We pay the government to deliver the mail (22+ / 0-)

    not photograph it and keep a database of where we bank, our doctors, or political organizations that we communicate with.

    Jeez, Walt.

    •  Exactly. Well said. (13+ / 0-)

      I, for example, give to many charities and lefty groups, like Amnesty International and The Innocence Project and many more.

      I damned sure don't want some authoritarian, right-wing spook perusing my records and deciding I look like an enemy of the state.

      Yet another chilling development.

      The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.-Bertrand Russell

      by Timaeus on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 10:22:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You willingly gave information to the government (0+ / 0-)

      You are a fool if you didn't want the government to have that information.

      John Roberts? Melville Fuller?? WTF is the difference???.

      by Walt starr on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 10:28:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not sure the US Postal Service... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TiaRachel, Timaeus, Superskepticalman

        is supposed to be "Government".  This is an argument that should be had.  Same with photographing our every movment on public streets.  How are we to have any element of our lives that is free from constant oversight...buy enough land and never leave it?  This place is no longer the "Home of the Free" and that should piss off a lot of people--you may remain unfrazzled if you wish.

        "If Jesus had a gun he'd still be alive today." Homer Simpson, 2013

        by quiet in NC on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 11:02:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here, let me clarify why the USPS is "Government" (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          second gen, quiet in NC

          CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES

          ARTICLE I.

          Section 8.

          The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

          To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

          To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

          To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

          To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

          To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

          To establish post offices and post roads;

          To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

          To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

          To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

          To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

          To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

          To provide and maintain a navy;

          To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

          To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

          To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

          To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

          To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

          John Roberts? Melville Fuller?? WTF is the difference???.

          by Walt starr on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 12:21:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You actually got recs for this nonsense post? (0+ / 0-)

            Amazing how many right-wingers persist on this site.

            The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.-Bertrand Russell

            by Timaeus on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 06:27:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  You're so polite (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus

        You gave the government your tax information, too. Do you think they should be able to do whatever they want with it? Should they be able to post it on a web site?

        Why not? You willingly gave the government that information, and clearly it is your opinion that if you give the government your information they should be able to use it in any way they see fit. That's the implicit argument you're making here: if you give your information to the government, then they should be able to do anything they want with it.

        For that matter, do you think the government should be able to post lists of everyone you have sent mail to over the past 7 years to a publicly accessible database? If not, then you actually agree in broad terms with the people you're calling 'fools' (and what does that make you) that the government should not have the right to do ANYTHING THEY WANT with the delivery information you've given them. At that point you are merely disagreeing about the details, where the line should be drawn. Which is to say, you think that the government should be able to collect the information for delivery purposes, and then keep it permanently as part of their 'file' on each citizen, but should not be able to post that information to a public database. And the person you're arguing with thinks that the government should be able to collect that information for delivery purposes, but then should not be able to keep it as part of some permanent 'file' that they keep on every citizen in the US.

        This is actually not a very large disagreement. But it's obviously one you feel passionate about, because you're willing to call people HR-able names over it. You should maybe step back a little and think about that before you continue this argument.

        •  Great post, but Walt isn't intelligent enough (0+ / 0-)

          to understand, in my opinion, nor his threadbare supporters.

          The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.-Bertrand Russell

          by Timaeus on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 06:29:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  zee - i've not seen ANY information that says that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Zwoof

      is what is happening - only a whole lot of wild speculation that has been rampant these last weeks.

      i, personally, want to see facts, not supposition before i go into full outrage mode.

      am too old to waste energy without verification.  

      happy fourth!  see ya on fb....

      EdriesShop Is it kind? is it true? is it necessary?

      by edrie on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 11:54:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Then you haven't read the thread. (0+ / 0-)

        The FBI just revealed this secret program a few days ago.

        The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.-Bertrand Russell

        by Timaeus on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 12:14:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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