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  •  you can't protect against all abuse (0+ / 0-)

    not with humans in the loop.  there will always be abuse or corruption to some degree.

    the american people will not elect people who will not protect them.

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 11:13:47 AM PDT

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    •  You mean (0+ / 0-)

      the American people prefer to vote for liars who claim "this is for your own good.  I can't keep you safe unless I know all your secrets!"

      I want to see Snowden get a fair trial, an impartial jury, and the same sentence James Clapper gets for lying to Congress.

      by happymisanthropy on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 12:08:19 PM PDT

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      •  haven't you been paying attention? (0+ / 0-)

        it took a whole city being left to drown before the american public turned on Bush.

        -You want to change the system, run for office.

        by Deep Texan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 12:24:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And? (0+ / 0-)

          you're saying that because Obama can get away with this, he should?

          Or are you saying that people are more likely to turn against Obama because they didn't turn against Bush?

          What's your point?  We should do stupid and counterproductive things, because if we don't do stupid and counterproductive things the Democrats will be held responsible for the next earthquake or volcanic eruption?

          I want to see Snowden get a fair trial, an impartial jury, and the same sentence James Clapper gets for lying to Congress.

          by happymisanthropy on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 12:30:01 PM PDT

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          •  that you can't affect change (0+ / 0-)

            from the fringe.

            you have to develop a winning coalition which means votes.

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 12:33:17 PM PDT

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            •  and after you win (0+ / 0-)

              you can give the finger to the people who elected you.  Hell, you can start as soon as the primaries are over because they have nowhere else to go.

              I want to see Snowden get a fair trial, an impartial jury, and the same sentence James Clapper gets for lying to Congress.

              by happymisanthropy on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 12:37:43 PM PDT

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              •  see you do understand (0+ / 0-)

                what we are up against isn't going to change because we cry about it.

                we have to organize. we have to convince the american people to align with us.

                we have to wage this battle long term over the next 20 years.

                then we might see some change we can believe in.

                which was always the case.

                -You want to change the system, run for office.

                by Deep Texan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 12:39:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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