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View Diary: Does the NSA deserve the presumption of innocence? (64 comments)

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  •  As long as we have intelligence services (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Einsteinia

    combating the terrorists, that will remain true. If we stood down entirely, terrorism-related deaths would become a major drag.

    •  Yes, but it could be done without sacrificing (5+ / 0-)

      our Constitutional rights.

      We do not need to be paying for over-reach for the PROFIT of corporations at the EXPENSE of our Constitutional rights.

      Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

      by Einsteinia on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 10:15:08 AM PDT

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      •  We determine if our Constitution is (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NoMoJoe, Einsteinia

        being violated by asking the USSC. They seem to be fine with this, as does our Constitutional scholar president (and the majority of the people). It is not a violation of the Constitution because a bunch of people on this website says it is. Doesn't work that way.

        •  The fact is we do NOT know and that is (2+ / 0-)
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          happymisanthropy, CroneWit

          precisely the problem.

          We are making a recipe for disaster when things are decided by oversight with secret courts with secret laws and secret interpretations of those laws.

          We have a problem with the chief of the surveillance lies about the scope of what they are doing to Congress.

          I am all for some of these secrets, but we have a real problem when journalists and ACLU-types that try to bring their concerns to the public but are so easily sabotaged by those insiders with an unfair advantage--complete access to their work product.  

          There is clearly inadequate oversight.  We can do it better and we do not need to be paying for over-reach when we cannot afford low interest student loans, Social Security, public schools, etc.

          It is just insane for all except for those on the payroll!

          Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

          by Einsteinia on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 12:24:15 PM PDT

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          •  Nah. We don't know everything about (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Einsteinia

            our nation's covert activity because it is covert activity. That's how it works. My life is no different with the NSA program in existence than it was before. My rights are intact, and life is good. OTOH, our nation is being taken over by right-wing fanatics, income inequality is increasing due to these assholes, and the atmosphere is filling with carbon dioxide. Those things I am VERY concerned about, not this theoretical bullshit that isn't even true for all we know.

            •  Well, I agree on your other concerns, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              CroneWit

              which is also why I do not think we should be PAYING for the level of "protection" without adequate oversight. It is just a great way to funnel money into the pockets of contractors.

              Unless they are going to use this surveillance to find the off-shore corporation hidden accounts hiding from our tax collectors, then I am against it.

              We need our precious tax dollars to deal with R&D to deal with the environmental crisis.

              Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

              by Einsteinia on Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 02:00:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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