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  •  How do you know if your correspondent (0+ / 0-)

    was "powerful" and not "powerless"?

    A lot of Native Americans, including some who aren't all that "powerful," have legitimate issues with immigration policy questions.

    They've been suffering from illegal immigration, after all, since 1492.

    •  I expect he IS powerless. (0+ / 0-)

      That is, it's another case of convincing somebody at the bottom to blame somebody else at the bottom.

      See Zimmerman, Robert, Only a Pawn in Their Game.

      If you had seen the cases I've seen involving the abuse and exploitation of immigrants, you might have a different attitude.  I hope so.

      Some really egregious stuff involved Kickapoo, for whom English is a third language, behind Kickapu and Spanish.

      Some really egregious stuff involved Yaqui and O'Odham.

      Yes, I've seen the Geronimo shirt at powwows.  Pretending we are at a different time in the colonization process is good for cheap laughs, but we mustn't forget that our interests in the here and now are more aligned with impecunious brown people who speak obscure languages than with rich white people who think Jesus spoke English.

      •  Man, you missed my point entirely (0+ / 0-)

        I'm not anti-immigrant.  The issues are complicated and the feelings run hot all over the place on this.  For your information, you can drop the high and mighty pose.  I've actually been to the Kickapoo rez at Eagle Pass and know all about the situation there with border problems.  We have these issues in the North too, for Ojibwa and Mohawk tribes, for example.   I've seen a Yaqui Deer Dance, and I have visited the O'Odham community when they were still fighting to change it from "Pima."  I work professionally in a number of Native communities now and spend perhaps 10% of my life in Native communities year in and out, always wishing it could be more.

        I've also read "Only a Pawn in Their Game."  

        My point is about your communication techniques, as you report them yourself.  You write an editorial.  You get a mildly snarky response.  And you go to town on that correspondent as if s/he was an unrepentant racist rather than someone you have a chance to persuade.  

        You just did it again, to me, here. You assumed I was anti-immigrant or utterly ignorant of things you know about.  

        I quoted the slogan (which preceded the Geronimo t-shirt, and comes in other versions as well) to try to signal my shared interest in Native perspectives.  

        You level a blanket accusation of bigotry against a large number of Native people when you dismiss the arguments that Native American community interests in the shape of US immigration policy might be somewhat orthogonal to those of the broader society, especially given that most Native communities enjoy some degree of sovereignty with respect to matters of citizenship and resource control.

        Native people have economic interests as well as cultural and civil rights interests, just like everyone else does, too.

        None of that is to say "screw those brown people from the other side of the arbitrary border."  For what it's worth, I also lived within La Frontera for about 6 years.  

        My sole point is in response to your self-reported abusiveness to someone who disagreed with you.  You seem to be tormenting yourself about it, so I offered a critique of your technique, which was to go zero to 60 in nothing flat on the outrage meter.

        A Luta Continua!

        •  some minor quibbles (0+ / 0-)

          As I said, this was not received in response to anything I wrote.

          It came out of the sky, and I took it as an invitation to join the anti-immigrant jihad.  I remain pretty sure that's correct.

          I took your response to say that I was not accounting for "legitimate issues" with immigration policies within indigenous communities.  I disagree, but decline your offer to compare penis sizes regarding involvement in those communities.  I think I did account for the "legitimate issues" and I'm not interested in accounting for what I take to be the illegitimate issues, the ones based on racism, although I'm not in a position to deny they exist.

          I was kind of surprised that you took the trouble to "read" Only a Pawn in Their Game, but good for you.

          •  Ha (0+ / 0-)

            Of course you mean the Dylan song. I'm thinking of a book I think by Anthony Lewis, got me on that.

            I'm not waving my dick around either.  Your response had a bit of an assumption that I was unfamiliar with Native issues, when they are at the heart of my own work too.  

            Glad we see eye to eye on the big stuff.

            I just think slamming ignorance as bigotry before you make the gesture of correcting it in good faith makes fewer friends for the Struggle.  Especially when your interlocutor is one of the oppressed.

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