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View Diary: How very un-Christian (48 comments)

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  •  What does this have to do with the title here? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rserven

    In fact, what IS the definition of both Christian and un-Christian? Jesus threatened people with hell if they disagreed with his teachings. Talk about fear tactics! So tell me how does being a Christian have anything to do with accepting or not accepting transgender people?

    These issues have to do with human rights, civil rights and democracy, not old mythological texts.

    •  I think the first sentence covers it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rserven
      Francisco Alvarado at Banana Republic nails it:  The Christian Family Coalition Hates Transgender People Too. Not surprisingly, the CFC opposes legal protections and the pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for gender-variant people.

      The Miami-Dade County Commission is considering an amendment to the county's human rights ordinance that would protect transfolk from discrimination. In response CFC executive director Anthony Vedrugo is rallying his unholy band to show up at the Commission's July 8 meeting to oppose the measure.

      Then the rest of Robyn's discussion is about the meeting itself.  You're right about this being a human rights issue but I think context for the title was provided.  

      Sadly, those "old mythological texts" are used to justify some pretty hideous behavior in our society.

      I do not demand tolerance, I demand equal rights. --Anna Grodzka

      by VeggiElaine on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 07:47:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's the Christians... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VeggiElaine, EdSF

      ...who purport to "love their neighbors" who block us from getting the same rights others have.

      •  But it's not "un-Christian" (0+ / 0-)

        to hold hate for other groups of people. Jesus did it all the time. So did Paul.  

        I do see the connection between the title and the information within the diary, BUT I feel that questioning these people on the basis of their claims of being Christian goes right over their heads.  They are not wrong because they are "un-Christian", they are wrong because they have no concept of human or civil rights, and unfortuately the biblical texts back them up. Better to attack them for their lack of humanity.

        •  I disagree, in part (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rserven
          unfortuately the biblical texts back them up.
          Cherry picked excerpts back them up.  

          I do not demand tolerance, I demand equal rights. --Anna Grodzka

          by VeggiElaine on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 08:39:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And cherry picked exerpts back up (0+ / 0-)

            liberal Christians who claim that Christianity is good/moral/progressive.   Whenever you use this argument, it becomes clear that it is meaningless on both sides because both sides cherry pick.  And I have to say that liberals are very guilty of ignoring the fact that Paul railed against Jews and Jesus said he came "Only" for the house of Israel when he was arguing against his disciples request to help a pagan woman AND threatened whole towns with hell. ( I find the concept of eternal torture immoral).

            The Religious Right is not wrong because they are not "true" Christians. They pretty much are.  They are wrong on the Constitution and Bill of Rights. They are anti-democracy, anti-humanity. Their basic "values" are immoral.  THOSE are the arguments to use.  They just ignore the "un-Christian" accusations and laugh them off.

            •  And are you out there fighting for the rights of.. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VeggiElaine, EdSF

              ...gender-variant people from your perspective?

              I really think it is presumptuous of you to try to tell us how to fight for our rights.

              •  Yes, I am. (0+ / 0-)

                The ACLU fights for gender variant people's rights, and they do it through using our laws, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights.

                I'm not telling you how to fight for your rights.  I'm just making the observation that telling the other side they are wrong because they are not true Christians (in your view) has no effect on them. Partially because they are hard hearted people and partially because there is no correct defintion of a Christian and the texts are full of passages that back these backward views up.

                Did gay marriage come about because the Religious Right realized they were being un- Christian and just gave up?  No, it happened through lobbying government, fighting in the courts, making logical arguments in public forums, etc.

                •  Did it occur to you that... (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  EdSF, VeggiElaine, Mortifyd

                  ...this approach is pointing out to people on the fence how hypocritical our opponents are?  It is the people on the fence who we need to convince.  Our opponents won't be convinced by any approach.

                  •  I truly don't know how many Christians (0+ / 0-)

                    or others are on the fence that you need to convince about hypocrisy on the part of the RR Christians. Not at this point.   I personally think it's hypocritical to say Christianity represents all goodness and light too.  But, if you feel that getting people to hate the Religious Right will get you more support, then have at it.  But remember that you also need people to be for your cause for a positive reason, not just because they hate who you hate.   I have always found the good Christian/bad Christian battles to be ineffective and more like a circular firing squad than a forward moving vehicle.

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