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  •  Facts are kind of exotic to you. (0+ / 0-)

    See the "sources" post above.

    "It's not my fault reality is marxist." - Che Guevara

    by Cassiodorus on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 11:00:00 AM PDT

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    •  recently a friend referred to a local entrepreneur (2+ / 0-)
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      emelyn, Hillbilly Dem

      who was making money off water efficiency  technology/products as a sellout and i had to point out we live in a fucking capitalist society and are we aren't going to change shit if we all have to be ralph naders. we can be activists all we wan't but the real change is going to come when we compete with the bastards and take their consumers from them and find new better products to replace the old shit. and that requires an initial desire to improve and fix but it also requires money. unfortunately.

      the idiots on the right call gore a hypocrite because he flies in a plane for fucks sake!

      This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

      by certainot on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 11:19:45 AM PDT

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      •  Why criticize the small fry -- (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        One Pissed Off Liberal, Just Bob

        when you can go after the very rich?

        recently a friend referred to a local entrepreneur (0+ / 0-)

        who was making money off water efficiency  technology/products as a sellout

        I don't know about your friend, but I rather doubt your friend was or is richer than Al Gore.  Also, did your friend have a father who was a prominent Senator who later worked as a lawyer for Occidental Petroleum?

        The principle behind capitalism is very simple.  The capitalists view all of nature and society as a free gift, and that the purpose of this free gift is it is to be accumulated as capital.  Toward this end, the capitalists run profit-making businesses within economies dependent upon "economic growth" -- the ever-expanding circulation of "goods and services" (which are in plain English called commodities).  As the struggle for capitalist profits becomes a struggle for market supremacy, the whole of the planet becomes an offering to the markets themselves.  Capitalism, then, hopes to commodify the planet for the greater glory of the capitalists.

        One of the reasons why capitalism is quite problematic in this era is because the "growth" process -- the ever-accelerating commodification of the world for the greater glory of wealthy capitalists -- conflicts with the ability of finite natural and social worlds to reproduce themselves.  Capitalism in this era eats its own natural seed-corn, as well as destroying its basis in society through its attempts to extract from society all that it has.  My critique of the notion that this process is going to last forever was placed in this diary.  The argument is not a simple one (I suppose a summary would start from the idea of "peak appropriation"), so the diary bears reading in its entirety.

        Al Gore has enough money right now to retire handsomely.  Why his so-called crusade against global warming has to run so short on solutions while he pursues investment opportunity through the back-door really confuses the notion that he cares a lot about it.

        i had to point out we live in a fucking capitalist society and are we aren't going to change shit if we all have to be ralph naders.
        I have no idea what Ralph Nader has to do with any of this, unless you still want a bogeyman for the Supreme Court's theft of the 2000 Presidential election, or if you're still unconcerned with the more than 200,000 Florida Democrats who voted for W. in that election.
        we can be activists all we wan't but the real change is going to come when we compete with the bastards and take their consumers from them and find new better products to replace the old shit.
        I disagree.  Any real solution to abrupt climate change will involve not consuming, and so we are best advised not to idolize those who consume sumptuously -- and this category includes Al Gore.  In this regard I don't really care if Rush Limbaugh wants to hijack this argument for his own stupid, mercenary purposes.
        the idiots on the right
        I created the postcapitalism group here at DailyKos.com when DK4 was first introduced, so needless to say I am not one of those "idiots on the right."

        "It's not my fault reality is marxist." - Che Guevara

        by Cassiodorus on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 12:07:53 PM PDT

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        •  my point is why go after gore for doing what's (0+ / 0-)

          natural to him, living in this country and economy, and being a product of it if he is pushing for solutions and a constant boogeyman to the right's denial industry?

          compared with the koch bros he's doing great. the nader ref wasn't about votes, it was about principles and sacrifice. i've spent most of my spare time innovating along the lines of fixing things and improving the planet and know I would have to have money or be able to play that capitalism game to make any of it happen. or luck. there are a lot of people doing similar in the same boat.

          it's a big club, with highly principled people doing great and small things, but within this system and all those jobs dependent on the energy industry  there are probably two main avenues for climate reform- legislation, and by playing the competition game. gore is part of that and i cut him slack for the fact that, like obama, the left lets the right swiftboat him mercilessly- we didn't get his back.

          and meaningful legislation is impossible (see immigration, health, gun, food, media, tax, election, military reform) as long as the left ignores RW radio, because we can't have fact-based rational discussions on a national scale about anything. if the RW think tanks decide to stop your legislation or candidate they have a much better chance merely for that reason. we can work for years on something and all they have to do is send a PR campaign through the radio for two weeks, long enough to activate their loud outraged constituency once again to enable the obstructors.

          we let the right swiftboat gore and steal the election, like we did kerry - i don't think he deserves more of it from the left.

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 01:10:40 PM PDT

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          •  Of false idols and real solutions (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            One Pissed Off Liberal
             my point is why go after gore for doing what's (0+ / 0-)

            natural to him

            You mean like being a member of the investor class?  You must have missed the point of the last post.  More capitalism is not the solution  This is precisely why I'm not into Gore -- he's a false idol.
            if he is pushing for solutions
            I'm sorry, I must have missed the communique in which Gore's effective solutions for global warming were outlined.  Was he at any point advocating keeping the grease in the ground?  
            i've spent most of my spare time innovating along the lines of fixing things and improving the planet
            Is the planet improved yet?  Or is it merely accumulated, as in capital accumulation?
            there are probably two main avenues for climate reform- legislation, and by playing the competition game.
            Then let's try legislation.
            and meaningful legislation is impossible (see immigration, health, gun, food, media, tax, election, military reform) as long as the left ignores RW radio
            No, this is an excuse for the Democratic Party's refusal to advocate.

            "It's not my fault reality is marxist." - Che Guevara

            by Cassiodorus on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 01:43:42 PM PDT

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            •  so how are you going to get legislation passed? (0+ / 0-)

              all the think tanks have to do is wait till all the work has been done, start something from their giant buzz machine and pretty soon its benghazi benghazi.

              some of the most effective legislation will be to subsidize/stimulate  clean energy, or at least even the playing field, so it can compete. or carbon tax, etc. you're not going to legislate capitalism away.

              couldn't even get single payer- made impossible since clinton with 20 years of unchallenged talk radio lying. no gun control- a no brainer right? why do we have a party that denies global warming? it's a party full of certifiable loons riding the talk radio express. how do you get the dems to get anything passed? seems like the right holds most of the cards and every time the dems try to regulate and raise taxes on the rich or stop torture or whatever, they get obstruction and end up compromising. they have to play the money and compromise game until we get election reform and move the dems left or make it possible for a third party (impossible without election reform). OWS was yelled over by 1000 radio stations and afterwards for months- politicians don't have to pay attention to protestors anymore.

              maybe win the house in 2014? every election it's the same. and how many people who think obama is a failure are going to stay hope like the fucking idiots in 2014 who didn't what they wanted when they wanted and thought all they had to do was vote blog and whine?

              the left will get nothing but scraps until they stop giving talk radio a free speech free ride.

              This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

              by certainot on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 04:57:37 PM PDT

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              •  It seems you live in the "progressive" universe. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                One Pissed Off Liberal

                Don't worry -- it won't last forever.  

                you're not going to legislate capitalism away.
                You must have missed my last several posts, or perhaps my last 250+ diaries, on this topic.  Capitalism will legislate itself away.  The big question in this regard is what will happen afterward.

                "It's not my fault reality is marxist." - Che Guevara

                by Cassiodorus on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 07:39:54 PM PDT

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                •  what i'm saying is we're stuck with it for a while (0+ / 0-)

                  and we're stuck with it a lot longer if its best weapon is invisible to the very people whose efforts it harms the most.

                  i nor the rest of my family cannot wait for capitalism to collapse on its own. the planet cannot wait. it has to happen soon.very soon. capitalism's best weapon the last 25 years is invisible. it is talk radio but you're strategizing from behind, like all the left, because they don't even acknowledge talk radio while its kicking their ass.

                  This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                  by certainot on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 08:50:19 PM PDT

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                •  PS afterward? (0+ / 0-)

                  if the left still has no idea what's being blasted from their local radio stations they may not even hear the public service announcements.

                  your most significant opponent is your RW state megastation which will be broadcasting dedicated free programming for the national right wing think tanks to hype 'illegal' immigrants and terrorism so they can create wars and pass voter suppression, and so on.

                  This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                  by certainot on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 08:57:28 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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