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View Diary: Obama v. Snowden: Which Side Are YOU On? (164 comments)

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  •  He's already delivered unprecedented transparency. (6+ / 0-)

    Would you care to offer the names of any Presidents whose administrations have been run in a more transparent manner?

    Hint: do you know why we know how many times the IRS chief visited this White House?

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 09:21:37 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I missed the snark tag. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      xxdr zombiexx

      Honest oversight. This administration, as I'm sure you know, if one of the least transparent in generations.

      "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

      by Kombema on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 09:49:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's completely false. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rubyr, emelyn, alain2112

        Do you remember why the Bush White House didn't have to release the names of the people on Dick Cheney's energy task force? That can't happen anymore; at least, not under this President.

        This is, by far, the most transparent administration in  American history. This isn't a matter of opinion; there have been major changes in policy that have significantly opened up White House operations to greater public scrutiny.

        Oh, and you didn't name one.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 06:06:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry, you're wrong. Do some reading and get (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cassiodorus, gooderservice

          "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

          by Kombema on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 09:50:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  OK, let's do some reading. Let's do that. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            voodoochild62

            Let's start by doing some reading about Obama's proposals about transparency from 2008, and see how many of them have to do with covert intelligence operations:

            Centralize Ethics and Lobbying Information for Voters: Obama and Biden will create a centralized Internet database of lobbying reports, ethics records and campaign finance filings in a searchable, sortable and downloadable format.

            Require Independent Monitoring of Lobbying Laws and Ethics Rules: Obama and Biden will use the power of the presidency to fight for an independent watchdog agency to oversee the investigation of congressional ethics violations so that the public can be assured that ethics complaints will be investigated.
            Create a Public “Contracts and Influence” Database: As president, Obama will create a “contracts and influence” database that will disclose how much federal contractors spend on lobbying, and what contracts they are getting and how well they complete them.

            Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny: Obama and Biden will ensure that any tax breaks for corporate recipients — or tax earmarks — are also publicly available on the Internet in an easily searchable format.

            Sunlight Before Signing: Too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them. As president, Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House Web site for five days.

            Shine Light on Earmarks and Pork Barrel Spending: Obama’s Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act will shed light on all earmarks by disclosing the name of the legislator who asked for each earmark, along with a written justification, 72 hours before they can be approved by the full Senate.

            Hmmm...that seems to be none.

            So, basically, you've caught the Obama administration not doing something it never made any indication it intended to do.

            Before you start telling people to "do some reading," it would be a good idea to know what you're talking about.

            Art is the handmaid of human good.

            by joe from Lowell on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 10:08:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  well, with a little help from Snowden, yeah (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      xxdr zombiexx, Kombema

      this is pretty transparent.

      Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 01:02:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You actually think transparency is about Snowden? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        emelyn

        Do you remember Dick Cheney's energy task force?

        Do you remember anything about the 2008 presidential campaign, and what the promise about a transparent White House was about?

        Hint: it had nothing to do with covert intel operations.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 06:08:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  apparently it didn't have to do with much (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kombema

          but if it makes you feel better, feel free to re-define the notion of transparency.

          Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 08:19:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, SLMD. Now I get to make you look stupid. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            emelyn, voodoochild62, alain2112

            Let's take a look at Obama's transparency proposals from 2008 so we can see who is "redefining" it, and what it had to do with:

            will create a centralized Internet database of lobbying reports, ethics records and campaign finance filings in a searchable, sortable and downloadable format.

            Require Independent Monitoring of Lobbying Laws and Ethics Rules: Obama and Biden will use the power of the presidency to fight for an independent watchdog agency to oversee the investigation of congressional ethics violations so that the public can be assured that ethics complaints will be investigated.
            Create a Public “Contracts and Influence” Database: As president, Obama will create a “contracts and influence” database that will disclose how much federal contractors spend on lobbying, and what contracts they are getting and how well they complete them.

            Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny: Obama and Biden will ensure that any tax breaks for corporate recipients — or tax earmarks — are also publicly available on the Internet in an easily searchable format.

            Sunlight Before Signing: Too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them. As president, Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House Web site for five days.

            Shine Light on Earmarks and Pork Barrel Spending: Obama’s Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act will shed light on all earmarks by disclosing the name of the legislator who asked for each earmark, along with a written justification, 72 hours before they can be approved by the full Senate.

            Hmmmmmmmmm...not seeing anything about making covert intelligence operations public knowledge.

            I know - I must have gone back and redefined that Propublica story, too.

            Lawyers have a rule: don't ever ask a witness a question you don't know the answer to. You very plainly don't know jack about Obama's promises, and accomplishments, in the area of transparency, so you should probably avoid holding forth on the topic.

            Otherwise, something like this is going to happen to you.

            Art is the handmaid of human good.

            by joe from Lowell on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 09:59:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You enjoy making people look stupid? (0+ / 0-)

              How kind.

              "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

              by rubyr on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 10:08:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'll take mean and right over wrong and kind. (0+ / 0-)

                Facts matter, and my interlocutor shouldn't have accused me of dishonesty for reporting them accurately.

                Art is the handmaid of human good.

                by joe from Lowell on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 10:10:42 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Unfortunately, many in this country feel exactly (0+ / 0-)

                  as you do. Sadly, often, they are mean and wrong.

                  "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

                  by rubyr on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 11:53:03 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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