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View Diary: Abbreviated pundit round-up: the jobs report, Ellsberg on Snowden, Missouri lawmakers on guns (97 comments)

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  •  Go on (2+ / 0-)
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    Nada Lemming, RocketJSquirrel

    Tell me more about his pragmatic cooperation with loathsome thug states, I've only heard innuendoes without anything really specific.

    •  I could cite any number of stories no less (0+ / 0-)

      substantive than Snowden's own claims, but I'll reword instead: He allowed himself to become a PR pawn of loathsome thug states because his allegedly moral crusade degenerated into a pissing contest with the US government rather than being about anything.  It's true they're going after him worse than they did Ellsberg, and part - part, mind you - of that is that his legal and moral position is much, much weaker.  He revealed spying, not murder and mayhem like the Pentagon Papers did, and his revelations have been selective, timed, and designed to achieve a political/ideological agenda that goes well beyond a fundamental moral stand.  He's in over his head and a very unfortunate choice for a civil liberties mascot.  

      Rather than dealing with that, it seems some people just want to double, triple, and quadruple down on his pissing contest, and all that's happening is that he's further muddying the waters of his own alleged cause by revealing more and more governments doing the same things while the governments becoming louder in his defense are increasingly just antagonistic to the United States in general.  I don't see who that's supposed to be helping: It's not making the people of those countries freer or helping the cause of whistleblowers in the United States by appearing to gravitate into the sphere of hostile governments.  If he wants to play geopolitics, then he should do it competently.  If he wants to play the martyr, then he should do it already.  But trying to do both and failing at both just makes him increasingly into a convenient fool for the people who he probably believes he's standing up against.

      Sign the petition to demand a law-abiding Supreme Court.

      by Troubadour on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 08:36:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you (2+ / 0-)
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        Nada Lemming, RocketJSquirrel

        Could you clarify what you mean to say by "he allowed himself to become a PR pawn?"

        •  I mean he's no longer in control of the agendas (0+ / 0-)

          he's now identified with, and couldn't regain control at this point even if he took a hard line against the governments rhetorically defending him.  He would just seem like a friendless ideologue and end up in US prison in short order.  So instead he's a pawn who remains free for a time and yet if/when that falls apart, he won't have nearly the moral position to defend himself with because he played the game.  

          Civil rights leaders have understood this stuff implicitly and walked the line, as have whistleblowers in the past, so I don't see much of an excuse for him to be so oblivious.  People who do as he's done incite institutional witch hunts that burn everyone of conscience behind them, and this isn't like the Cold War where he represents a freer society that would cherish his views so they'd shine for the world.  There's no such place - no country with a substantial intelligence infrastructure that would fail to thoroughly prosecute at least some of what he's done if he did it coming from their own institutions.  There are merely a handful of places that dislike the United States enough that they might give him asylum to piss off our government.  Nothing more morally edifying than that.

          Sign the petition to demand a law-abiding Supreme Court.

          by Troubadour on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 09:25:01 AM PDT

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