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View Diary: Catholic Authority Based on a Forgery: The Donation of Constantine (40 comments)

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  •  Wish I'd added a poll (1+ / 0-)
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    I would like to know who knew about this bit of forgery before reading this diary - and it would be interesting to know too if you're American or not, Catholic or not.

    I know internet polls are terribly unscientific and anything from daily kos is not going to be an indication of the general public.

    by chloris creator on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 11:25:40 PM PDT

    •  Poll now added! Please participate (1+ / 0-)
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      wilderness voice

      even though it is so grossly unscientific

      by chloris creator on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 01:43:45 AM PDT

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    •  this is a very useful piece of information (4+ / 0-)

      warms the cockles of me heart to know that that utterly corrupt organization was birthed organizationally in lies.... it is in their birthright and character....

      Oh, let me try to remember?  Isn't there a saying about lies and its father?  Oh yes...

      John 8:44

      You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

      We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

      by SeaTurtle on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 08:00:14 AM PDT

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      •  and (3+ / 0-)
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        chloris creator, OldDragon, SeaTurtle
        Revelation 21:8
         But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
        not that hese hypocrites take their own book seriously or anything
      •  "Utterly corrupt organization"? Really? (1+ / 0-)
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        This is what is constantly unnerving me on this site.  People who no longer check themselves any more than the Tea Party.

        •  yep, it's pretty corrupt (1+ / 0-)
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          Here's a link to an interview with a sex abuse survivor and a few  excerpts from that interview:

          MARTIN: I guess - I want to go back to a question I probably should have asked sooner, which is - why do you think the abuse that has been documented to have occurred in the '60s, '70s and '80s, happened? And why do you think that the scandal unfolded as it did?

          HOATSON: Two principal reasons, and there are many -obviously - points to come after those two reasons. But essentially, number one: Wherever power and authority are abused, children will be abused, and all other people will be abused. So the Catholic Church is a very closed, insular society with one leader, and everyone is answerable to that leader. When that leader can then have ultimate authority over everyone in the organization - well, that's abuse of power.

          When power is not shared, when authority is not delineated to various people in the organization, you're going to have serious, serious issues. And the pedestalization of the priesthood as a result of that - in other words, priests are other Christs. Anybody who develops an ego or a narcissism that is centered around, I'm as - almost as good as God; and he must practice, then, mandatory celibacy; and he has sexual urges - well, you add God and urges and boy, that little altar boy at 7 o'clock in the morning starts to look pretty good, in terms of outlets for sexual pleasures and gratifications.
          MARTIN: I also think it's important to point out that just as of last month, you chose to leave the priesthood voluntarily. You were granted permission by the pope, which is required; it took about a year. Can I ask why you decided to leave the priesthood, which has, in fact, been your vocation for your entire adult life?

          HOATSON: Well, unfortunately, the Catholic Church has been corrupted to its core. And I felt that I could not remain inside that structure. There is so much yet to be revealed about the inside of the Catholic Church that it's just mind-boggling. And I couldn't remain a part of that institution, and remain faithful to my own integrity.

          Bolding mine.  An ex priest so I think he has some credibility.

          Not just sex but money too - the Vatican Bank scandal and the priest arrested just last week for smuggling 20 million € in order to help friends.

          Not to mention all the priests who have preached which way they think their parishioners should vote despite being in a tax-exempt organization.

          Yes, there are good priests and nuns and laypersons, and even organizations within the church doing genuinely good work.  But there is A LOT of corruption - this comment could fill several books - and the authority is based on an actual forgery.  So although calling it utterly corrupt may be a little hyperbolic, it's not much.  

          We are not the tea party.

          by chloris creator on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 10:22:46 AM PDT

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        •  cuphalffull, you are being provocative (0+ / 0-)

          do you realize that?

          With all your railing against bullies in many comments on this website, do you realize that you are acting as a bully?  And are you now going to claim victim status when I return the blow you gave me?  Not even aware that you struck the first blow of violence?  And then will you claim to be a victim of that violence?

          Without discussion, you hurl this epithet at me:

          People who no longer check themselves any more than the Tea Party.
          You are accusing me of being "Tea Party" like because you don't agree with me.  Where is the dialogue here?  Where is the back and forth sharing?  Where is the asking me what I mean?  

          Or are you more interested in your own power games?  And more interested in calling others bullies, yet not seeing how you bully?  

          You are free to have whatever opinion on the catholic church that you have.  Fortunately I do not have to limit my opinion to your ignorance.

          I have studied this subject in depth and I am confident of my opinion.  The organization of the catholic church, the hierarchy, is UTTERLY CORRUPT.  Should you choose to discuss this, like, say an adult, I would discuss this with you.

          Just spare me your name calling and blind ignorance.

          Go back to Al-Anon for a refresher course (or if you haven't met them yet, I suggest that you get acquainted.)

          We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

          by SeaTurtle on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 11:41:50 AM PDT

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