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View Diary: PRISM: What It's Really All About (196 comments)

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  •  Any fear I've felt pertaining to 9/11 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kovie, Joieau, Lisa

    ...is the awareness that the indcident is the direct result of US foreign policy.

    9/11 is a perfectly expected and natural result of neocon-inspired US international atrocities.

    As long as the foreign policy atrocities continue -- like Afghanistan and Iraq, and now Africa -- then there is every reason to expect decades of revenge directed at the United States.

    It is only normal and natural.

    Fear is optional, but the revenge against the United States is inevitable and never-ending.

    That's reality. And if the tables were turned (and they were at Pearl Harbor) we would do the exact same thing.

    The US will be on lockdown until its foreign policy changes and the US stops being the world greatest terrorist nation.

    Another thing that is optional is remaining in the US to suck up all the punishment from inside and outside.



    Denial is a drug.

    by Pluto on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 09:03:47 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Officially, it is the blowback from "US" policy (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pluto, Joieau

      and actions. But in reality, these policies and actions are the doings of a fairly small group of people who whether for ideological reasons or simply personal gain have conspired to basically exploit both Americans and people abroad, enabled by the tacit approval of a majority of Americans, whether witting or not, be it because they vote for these people or fail to vote for better people, or because they buy their products unthinkingly, or simply fail to speak out and do something to oppose these policies and actions.

      Not to go all Godwin, but it's a "Hitler's Willing Executioners" sort of thing.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 09:14:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not to go political (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Joieau

        ...but Hillary is one of them.



        Denial is a drug.

        by Pluto on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 09:17:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I can't say that she's deliberately (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joieau

          sought to prosper from the exploitation of others, but prosper from it she has, politically if not materially. And she certainly didn't stand in the way when others were clearly seeking to prosper from such things.

          I think she's among the better of a bad lot, like Obama. But damn, we can and must do better, or else we're screwed.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 09:21:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Obama is better than that Hillary (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Joieau

            ...and Biden is better than both of them.

            Hillary is behind the atrocity of Nato's holy war on Libya. And the blowback from that clusterfuck is just beginning.



            Denial is a drug.

            by Pluto on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 09:25:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The standard is less being better (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Pluto, Joieau

              than not being quite as bad, both morally and in terms of competence. We have so few leaders who are genuinely better on both counts, like Liz Warren and Barbara Lee. I know so few people who are. It's a modern disease.

              I.e. my sig line.

              "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

              by kovie on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 09:30:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Presidents are groomed and vetted (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kovie, Joieau

                ...for many years. They start going to church, are introduced to the financiers, they are made flexible ie. compromised. Approved selections are made for you -- which is why both sides are grumpy about their lack of options.

                But, one must be completely cognizant about what a President is for. It is a relatively powerless position. The President, too, is presented with pre-vetted choices, after all.

                OPOL said it best today:

                "The presidency is both a shiny object and a heat sink. It distracts us from what's being done to us, and to others in our names, while taking the heat off of those doing it." -- One Pissed Off Liberal, 2013
                When you accept this reality, then your choices will suddenly expand.

                You'll see.



                Denial is a drug.

                by Pluto on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 09:43:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  And yet, we had Lincoln, TR, FDR & LBJ (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Pluto, Joieau

                  who were their own men, if not right away, then eventually. What's changed?

                  "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                  by kovie on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 09:54:53 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Technology. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Joieau



                    Denial is a drug.

                    by Pluto on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 09:56:35 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Yes and no (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Pluto, Joieau

                      There was a similar "End of History" outlook at the turn of the 19th century, only in a much more positive way, as opposed to this fatalistic way. It, like the other one, will, I believe, prove to be simplistic and unfounded.

                      Among other reasons,because technology can work both ways, and because of its relative low cost, can be powerful in enough of the right hands. E.g. the "Twitter Revolution". Also, one can't discount the impact of unforeseen and unforeseeable disruptive factors, like social media or climate change (in terms of their future specific consequences). I.e. stuff happens, both good and bad.

                      I think we're currently in a "rejiggering" phase and no one can know how it'll play out. The elite think they have it all figured out this time, but they always think that. And they're always wrong. They can no more control the future than could those 19th century technocratic progressives.

                      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                      by kovie on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 10:05:23 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

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