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View Diary: You Will Never Find A More Wretched Hive Of Scum And Villainy. (75 comments)

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  •  The right to procreation (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    is recognized as a fundamental right in the United States.

    Though, somewhat oddly, it is not listed as being a fundamental right in other countries in the article.

    •  The right to determine when and how (4+ / 0-)
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      ER Doc, DFWmom, Anne was here, rhetoricus

      many is certainly not recognized as a right.  Unless all the oppressive state laws on contraception and abortion are overthrown.

    •  Which, honestly, is ridiculous (2+ / 0-)
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      Neuroptimalian, rhetoricus

      We license drivers, but not parents?

      I mean, to adopt a pound dog I had to prove that I had the resources to care for him, and a lifestyle stable enough to make a commitment for the animal's remaining life expectancy.

      We'll do that for a dog, but not for a person.


      •  Not ridiculous (1+ / 0-)
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        because the alternative - certification - would be far too intrusive and subject to potential abuse or overreach, not to mention impossible to monitor anyway considering that around half of pregnancies are unplanned.

        •  Well, I don't see how it could be too intrusive- (0+ / 0-)

          I mean, there's a kid involved. I adopted- the background check was exhaustive. it was also appropriate.

          You didn't get the permit, you don't get the tax breaks.
          Maternal parent is fined to hell, unless a paternal can be located, at which point they're both fined to hell. Maternal's can be reduced by providing info of paternal.

          Most people don't speed often, because they don't want a $100-500 ticket. Make it $1k-2K for the pregnancy, and they'll use a condom.

          Prove the condom failed, State waives fines.

          But I wanna see that rubber.

          If we don't, any environmental progress we make is just pissing into the wind.

          •  Most people (2+ / 0-)
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            jpmassar, Remembering Jello

            could not come up with the money for a fine.

            Actually, we are not reproducing at a high rate in the U.S. The total fertility rate is around 1.9 births per woman.

            •  I agree, the States aren't too bad. (1+ / 0-)
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              We should be taking up some slack for the rest of the world. If somebody wants a child in their life, there are plenty who need a home. Right here in the US.

              Umm... If someone can't afford a 10K fine in payments over a year, I have no idea how they plan to raise a child. The point of the fine is to help them realize that.

              •  I agree that (3+ / 0-)
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                jpmassar, DFWmom, Remembering Jello

                kids are expensive. I have a couple as well.

                However, there are huge numbers of people who are raising children on incomes that would not have room for a few thousand here or there. About half of childbearing women in California are living below the poverty line. How are they doing it? Beats me, but they are. Probably a lot of them with help from relatives and the government.

                •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
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                  DFWmom, jpmassar
                  How are they doing it?
                  Probably not very well. I'm sure that they're doing their best, and I don't mean to imply that anyone is a bad person, but statistically, those kids aren't thriving. In any other situation, we would call it child abuse.
                  •  Well (4+ / 0-)

                    I don't know. It is not the ideal situation of course, but your comments are edging into criminalizing poverty. I don't think we can really go there.

                    •  It's sticky- I agree. (3+ / 0-)

                      I dunno- I adopted my daughter after acting as a foster parent to her for several years. She had ended up in the foster system when her mom just couldn't take care of her- so there was that abuse ( borderline malnutrition, crappy to non-existant health care, etc.) followed by the abuse she suffered in the "foster farm" system before we met. ( Basically being treated as a piece of meat who could never account for anything, never having any privacy, verbal and physical abuse at the hands of professional "foster farmers", etc)

                      ( I had never intended to parent, but we met this little girl... and she was not thriving, to put it politely. You wanna talk about an intrusive process- apply to foster a particular child that not a blood relative.  Especially a kid who is considered "troubled".They really, really wanna know why.)

                      So I probably don't have the least biased of views- My take may "edge into" criminalizing poverty, but what was done to that (my) little girl was absolutely criminal in every sense.

                      My wife and I could help her, but the simple fact is that just about none of these kids get any kind of real help.

                      We don't wanna go there, but we also don't want kids to starve.


        •  However... (2+ / 0-)

          When a person is in prison, they are in the custody of another, who then has responsibility for that person, and their offspring.  

          I think that discussing pregnancies during institutionalization, pregnancies where the mother is unable to care for her child, are a separate topic.  We deprive prisoners of rights that are otherwise constitutionally protected, that others have ,when they are institutionalized -- their freedom, for starters.   I am not saying we should, but it is a valid topic of discussion.  


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