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View Diary: Why Scientists Don't Understand Anything about Sexual Orientation (214 comments)

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  •  link? (5+ / 0-)

    Minority rights should never be subject to majority vote.

    by lostboyjim on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 08:33:02 AM PDT

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    •  Every psychiatrist since Freud (4+ / 0-)

      Every observation of mammalian behavior.

      The violence used to enforce gender norms.

      The Kinsey report

      This isn't new.

      •  Freud really meant that everyone has a propensity (6+ / 0-)

        for being polymorphously perverse:  being able to complete a sex act using most anything as a prompt.

        In this sense, I think Freud talked more about the erotic than about orientation as we've come to think about it.  And how we've come to think about it might be really stupid :)

        This isn't the same as bisexuality.

        Kinsey reports had a lot of unscientific stuff.  Not that I mind in some ways, but he did demand being recognized as a scientist.

        •  The thing is that (3+ / 0-)

          even the most cursory glance at cultural anthropology reveals that bisexual activity is so pervasive and widespread throughout various human cultures that it's incredibly difficult to deny that exclusive sexual orientations are the norm.  They appear, rather, to be the exception.  Our sexuality is far more fluid than we admit.

        •  Comparative studies of (3+ / 0-)

          primates suggest this as well.  Witness the bonobos with whom we're 98% genetically identical.

          •  Yet not in common chimp culture -- at least not (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FarWestGirl

            to nearly the same degree.

            The difference, to me, seems to probably lie in epigenetics.

            •  The Bonobos have the bonding gene we have (0+ / 0-)

              The common chimps do not.

              I'm thinking that is a big deal.

              Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

              by splashy on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 03:17:10 AM PDT

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              •  Makes sense. Women have very strong emotional (0+ / 0-)

                Relationships and some are sexual.  Men do have a need for bonding and frequently the experience of war provides this, also to some degree sports, but it seems to require an extreme experience.   Women get together just to be together all the time, while men need an activity as a cover. But maybe that is just our culture.  I kind of doubt it though because one reads about women having circles of activity going back to hunter gatherers.  

                Don't bet your future on 97% of climate scientists being wrong. Take action on climate now!

                by Mimikatz on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 08:45:07 AM PDT

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                •  If you look at photographs of social gatherings (0+ / 0-)

                  And of work place gatherings from the late 1800's and early 1900's, it is not uncommon to see young men with their arms straddled over one another, the way that young kids will do if let to their own devices.

                  It is a common situation in societies that don't stress competition. In South America and Latin America, male friends do this. Our society  puts the kabash on this. In fact, several years ago, two young men from Central America were brutally killed on the East Coast, because their habit of walking around with there arms entertwined suggested their 'homosexuality" when in fact it was simply a cultural norm. (Not that it would have been "okay" for them to be killed  if they had indeed been gay.)

                  Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

                  by Truedelphi on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 01:30:01 PM PDT

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        •  Freud was a brilliant quack (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          207wickedgood, lostboyjim

          Who shouldn’t have survived early scandals?
          He just seems so ridiculously out of date now...
          People aren’t gay because of how their mother potty train them...
          Kinsey reports were outright fraud.

          •  Freud was no quack, (0+ / 0-)

            I went to Smith College for Social work which is still mainly Freudian and I can tell you that after 13 years as a practicing psycho therapist I have more respect for him everyday. Of course he was influenced by the time he lived as is everyone, but even his thoughts about most things being related to sex may have been right in his repressive times. I can say that even stuff I though was a bunch of crap I have since learned was true.

            And as for the Bonobo, we are closer related to the common chimps unfortunately and our social organization with the male dominant pattern is more like theirs.

            As to females being more likely to be bi, I chalk that up to the fact that we all start out falling in love with a female ordinarily, that being mom, so it might actually be more difficult to switch to men.

            •  Wow, uh, that last sentence. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              radmul

              That's the quackiest conjecture I've read all morning.

              "We need institutions and cultural norms that make us better than we tend to be. It seems to me that the greatest challenge we now face is to build them." -Sam Harris, neuroscientist

              by MarthaPeregrine on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 09:05:04 AM PDT

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            •  I had never thought about our early attchment to (0+ / 0-)

              Our mothers implying our attachment to other women. It makes sense, doesn't it?

              I know as a young child, my best girlfriend and I fantasized continually about either joining a convent together, or getting married to each other. We dropped the convent idea when we found out we wouldn't have steak very often, and I don't know the precise age when we gave up the idea of getting married to one another.

              Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

              by Truedelphi on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 01:33:17 PM PDT

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            •  Too bad Freud covered up the extent of childhood (0+ / 0-)

              sexual abuse.



              Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

              by Wee Mama on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 03:36:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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