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View Diary: Why Scientists Don't Understand Anything about Sexual Orientation (214 comments)

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  •  I can think of other possibilities (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, VeggiElaine, wader, CS in AZ, sturunner

    e.g. gender and sex might be biological, but have far more diversity than any culture has recognized. Some cultures are more accommodating of the natural diversity than others; our culture is very anti-diversity in general. That is the main argument evolutionary biologist and trans woman Joan Roughgarden made in Evolution's Rainbow.

    My own view is that brains are really complicated and the truth, when we get it, will also turn out to be really complicated -- as biology usually is.

    •  Orientation & transition (2+ / 0-)
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      atana, Dogs are fuzzy

      I have noticed different attitudes and feelings toward men since beginning transition.  I'm trying to figure out whether that's due to hormones or to variation in the implied social constructs.  

      In any case, we really stretch that binary idea presented regarding sexual appetites.  Once again, the scale itself does not apply.

      I do not demand tolerance, I demand equal rights. --Anna Grodzka

      by VeggiElaine on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 01:55:52 PM PDT

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      •  I didn't find that estrogen had any influence (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VeggiElaine

        on my "orientation", which would describe as "asexual lesbian": i.e. I (greatly) prefer the company of women but I have no real interest in having sex with them.

        Perhaps if males had not beaten me into PTSD for the first two decades of my life, I would have found them erotic -- I don't know. As it is, I just find them to be something I avoid as much as I can.

        •  I would describe myself similarly (0+ / 0-)

          It's not sexual re men or even necessarily physical, more aesthetic.  Just different.

          I'm sorry about your experiences.  I had some terrible ones too.  I try to limit the scope of my damages to specific people so the contagion doesn't spread to otherwise wonderful people.  I wouldn't want to ignore nearly half the humans on earth because of the meanness & smallness of a handful of them.

          I do not demand tolerance, I demand equal rights. --Anna Grodzka

          by VeggiElaine on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 02:24:45 PM PDT

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        •  You are aware, perhaps, that most men prefer (0+ / 0-)

          the company of men, but have no real interest in having sex with them?

          I don't know exactly what that means with respect to your personal observation, other than to say that it does not sound at all out of character for a heterosexual woman, your description notwithstanding.

          This is an amusing subplot in a popular tv comedy: Two men, both vain and shallow, discover they have a lot in common. As they become friends, they bumble into a homosexual relationship, because neither of them has ever actually had a friend before, so they can't interpret a desire to spend time with another person as anything other than sexual.

          To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

          by UntimelyRippd on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 07:51:57 PM PDT

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        •  There are too many stories like yours (0+ / 0-)

          It's really rough emotionally even to read about the lives of trans* people, so I can't understand what it's like to live them.

          I try to dissociate, distance myself, and hide behind the habits of thought that earned me a hard science degree, but then I just get furious about the crimes against science instead.

          Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

          by Dogs are fuzzy on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 11:47:46 AM PDT

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    •  well, for us materialists, at some level (0+ / 0-)

      it is all biological. so then the question becomes, to what extent can it be manipulated post-delivery? and the answer to this must itself depend on the individual -- their genetics+development, leading to their being born in an anatomy already prepped to go in certain directions.

      it might be possible to actually redirect a person's gender or sexual identity by manipulating their environment (including giving them drugs of various sorts), but attempts to do anything like that have thus far been miserable failures, not to mention pointless ones.

      To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

      by UntimelyRippd on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 08:14:02 PM PDT

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