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  •  Also (5+ / 0-)
    The fact that no issue you can possibly care about will ever advance if Republicans can simply pick their own electorate doesn't seem to compute.
    They already do this with gerrymandering, probably the most undemocratic sham in this entire country. However, there's no movement to stop it in the liberal blogosphere.
    •  Shockingly, that is the one thing Arizona... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PALiberal1, DeadHead, Troubadour, Praxical

      ...gets even close to right -- we have an independent redistricting commission. Of course, when our Republican legislature and governor could not stomach the proposal the commission came up with, they tried to remove the head of the commission and make them start over. The whole thing ended up in our state Supreme Court, which made a correct decision and left the commissioner and the commission alone.

      I don't know enough about the outcome of our new districts, but maybe they will be more balanced than the really crappy ones elsewhere.

      The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. --John F. Kennedy

      by CenPhx on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 12:13:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  partisan gerrymandering though (1+ / 0-)
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      is constitutional. they kinda haven't wavered on that much for a few decades now.

      •  I say it's gone too far. (0+ / 0-)

        Do you say it's acceptable?

        Sign the petition to demand a law-abiding Supreme Court.

        by Troubadour on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 04:11:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  it's not, but that's generally up to the states. (0+ / 0-)

          if you want my personal opinion, all states should redistrict like Iowa does.

          •  The fact that states can get away with it (0+ / 0-)

            and haven't been stopped by judicial authorities does not mean they have the right.  I say they don't have the right.  I say it's their obligation to redistrict equitably to best represent their population, and that failing to find so in court is a dereliction.

            Sign the petition to demand a law-abiding Supreme Court.

            by Troubadour on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 04:38:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  actually, they DO have the right (0+ / 0-)

              to do partisan gerrymandering. That right has been upheld on many occasions. for decades. Both liberal AND conservative Courts. It's blatent racial district packing that's been tossed. That is why it was so important to the Republican Party to retake state legislatures and governorships in 2010. It's a major strategic failure of the Democratic Party that it didn't explicitly lay that out prior to that election.  

              What you say is great and on the subject of gerrymandering I agree with most of it but the states through their legislatures absolutely do have the right to create ridiculously partisan districts. The courts have been saying this for 60 years now. BOTH parties do it. Compare the districts Maryland and its immediate neighbor to the north. Two lopsided states with incredible gerrymanders. One's Democratic, the other's Republican. And then? Look at Illinois.

              •  The right of the people to representative (0+ / 0-)

                government trumps whatever fabricated, collective right of institutions to arbitrarily determine the shape of districts.  Only authoritarian doctrines like "sovereign immunity" would argue for the latter "right."

                Sign the petition to demand a law-abiding Supreme Court.

                by Troubadour on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 05:05:25 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  sovereign immunity is not how any of the (0+ / 0-)

                  gerrymandering cases were decided. Almost all of them are good reads and you can find them for free. A lot of them were Warren-court decisions.

                  (and again, you know the legislatures in most states do all the re-districting, yes? those are people who are elected by the people to represent them. that they've drawn themselves into safe seats, well that's another issue.)

                  until someone brings a federal case forth to stop partisan gerrymandering or gets their state legislature to consider another way, it'll continue to be legal.

                  •  Gerrymandering interferes in the ability (0+ / 0-)

                    of the people to change their minds, and is thus a fundamentally undemocratic phenomenon.  It doesn't even have the benefit being a practical solution to anything.  It's just corrupt and indefensible.  Moreover, I think it's obvious that gerrymandering has selectively benefited Republicans.  Obviously there's some asymmetry in how aggressively it's pursued and/or tolerated.  That alone would render it illegitimate.

                    Sign the petition to demand a law-abiding Supreme Court.

                    by Troubadour on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 06:36:36 PM PDT

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                    •  It's important to bear in mend (1+ / 0-)
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                      that some gerrymandering is done to avoid dilution of minority votes, that is by creating minority districts.  I agree that gerrymandering should be done away with, but it is a persistent problem.  Neither party has much desire to abolish it when they have to power to do so because at that time they also have the power to gerrymander districts in their favor.  It's about self-interest, sadly.

                    •  if only the law worked that way. (0+ / 0-)

                      not enough movements or interests in state legislatures to move to non-partisan gerrymandering. they will not do it until they lose a case or their legislatures are pushed to do so. those really are the only solutions to eliminating partisan gerrymandering as it's permissible under the constitution. we're not the only nation with this problem and it's a persistent, ancient problem.

                      •  No time like the present to start dealing with it. (1+ / 0-)
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                        I think it's time we articulated it as fundamental to democracy that elected officials don't get to choose their own electorates, because when they do, the people are denied their choice of governments.  The American people in 2012 put the Democratic Party back in control of the House, but the gerrymandered system didn't see it that way.

                        Sign the petition to demand a law-abiding Supreme Court.

                        by Troubadour on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 09:53:11 PM PDT

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    •  Consider this a movement to stop it. (0+ / 0-)

      Among many other partisan travesties this horror show of a Court has promoted.

      Sign the petition to demand a law-abiding Supreme Court.

      by Troubadour on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 04:11:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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