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View Diary: Former FISA Judge Breaks Ranks (475 comments)

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  •  Some people understand that rhetorical device (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yoshimi, native, etherealfire

    Do you have an issue with the main message?

    fix the damn thing.
    Or would you rather put your energy into converting this story into another Snowden story?
    •  If burying the lede... (6+ / 0-)

      ...is how one delivers the main message, well then sure...energy should be focused on fixing the damn thing.

      Rhetorical devices aside, of course.

      all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

      by 4kedtongue on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 12:46:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And here I though the lede was "fix it" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        etherealfire

        Now i know better. the story IS about personalities.

        •  The lede is fix it. (2+ / 0-)
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          Quicklund, Barton Funk

          Which is why the lede should lead.  

          Bury the lede:

          To begin a story with details of secondary importance to the reader while postponing more essential points or facts.
          Secondary details are italicized, the more essential facts (lede) in bold.
          So leave out the name calling and fix the thing. (4+ / 0-)
          Leave off the Obama=Stalin and Snowden=Trotsky for "exposing" him crap and fix the damn thing.

          "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

          by zenbassoon on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 12:01:33 PM PDT

          [ Reply to This |  Recommend   Hide ]

           
          Just pointing out that in addition to being a strawman argument, a rhetorical device was employed.  Or maybe I made a mistake as to whom your comment was directed?

          all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

          by 4kedtongue on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 02:41:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think maybe we both have lost our place a little (3+ / 0-)

            That happens when multiple sub-threads are open and one is replyig from one's comments page instead of from the diary page. Or at least it happens when that one is me.

            I think we agree more than we disagree. So what say we call this a ... I dunno a 'cat game' as per tic-tac-toe, kill this sub-thread, and start over afresh?

            For my money my take is this: what started out as a good diary could have and should have sparked a non-pie fight discussion for once. But it instead turned into a this-justifies-Snowden / this-has-no-bearing-on-Snowden pie fight.

            The lost opportunity is a pity.

            Agreed on that much? I'm happy to take even smallest "conversational wins" these days. ;)

            •  I agree... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Quicklund, middleagedhousewife

              ...to an extent, but the issues are intertwined in a political sense and also wrt the timing of Robertson's stated opinion.  And I think that transcends the pie fight.  

              Not all pie fights have to have winners and losers, but sometimes the important ones should...and not for the sake of rubbing one side's nose in shit, either...in other words, not simply for the sake of being right.

              You're difficult to peg, and that's what I really like about you...and no, this isn't me making it personal (as you know I can -- tee-hee), this is about me believing that you are to the right of me wrt Snowden BUT you wouldn't be engaged if you didn't find some value in his actions.

              I always hold out the possibility that I could be wrong, however, and this could be one of those times.  I don't like to eat shit, but I'm no stranger to having it force fed to me.

              :)

              all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

              by 4kedtongue on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 03:02:37 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I honestly have no opinion on Mr Snowden yet (2+ / 0-)
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                4kedtongue, etherealfire

                He touched off a valuable debate. There is not denying that, so I don't.

                OTOH his supporters often try to make the case Mr Snowden did nothing that could possibly hurt national security. Since we do not know exactly what he stole, we are not in position to make that claim. So I resist when I hear that claim is made.

                One day we will have a low-distortion account of events and them perhaps I will have an opinion on Mr Snowden himself. Until that day passes I really do not care too much about Mr snowden's personal fate.

                I agree there should be a national debate on this issue and it most certainly looks like there is enough room for reform to sail a Japanese WW2 era battleship through the holes. Of course, everything governmental would be better with less American voter apathy.

                Thanks for the nice conversation. ;)

                •  The nice conversation? ;-) (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Quicklund

                  I simply read your sig line and posted accordingly.  

                  all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                  by 4kedtongue on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 03:32:11 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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