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View Diary: Golf, Culture, & Cognitive Dissonance (48 comments)

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  •  This is the second diary of recent questioning the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    grover, MHB

    military being honored at public events.  The first discussed the military being honored at baseball games.  Thankfully most people appreciate the gesture of recognizing those that serve. Including me.    

    Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    by thestructureguy on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 08:20:45 PM PDT

    •  There's nothing inherently wrong with it. (8+ / 0-)

      The problem,, I think, it that these well-meaning gestures start to lose their relevance when they become so pervasive -- and especially when they become expected. Personally, I would rather see us honor soldiers by giving them better mental health care and not forcing their loved ones to hold fundraisers to buy them proper body armor.

    •  there is no questioning, except in your concerned (3+ / 0-)

      mind.

      Saying thank you for your service is fine, even encouraged.

      Let's question the "what for" as to why this valliant service is necessary.

      Required reading: "War is a Racket" by Smedley Butler, the highest ranking Marine ever to serve.

      Carry on.

      “Vote for the party closest to you, but work for the movement you love.” ~ Thom Hartmann 6/12/13

      by ozsea1 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 11:12:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't like it (9+ / 0-)

      I spent 21 years in the military. Retired as a Lt. Colonel.

      I find our post-911 fetishizing of the military a bit creepy and not unlike the kind of thing I used to see come out of the Soviet Union.

      If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

      by Major Kong on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 02:12:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it's more of guilt from the way many (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        awhitestl

        returning troops from Vietnam were treated. I remember when those in uniform were vilified by some on the left as baby killers.  It was cool to put down the grunts.  We forgot that the individual troops weren't to blame for the government's policies.  So now I look at it as the public's way of saying thank you for their service not an endorsement of the policies.  But if some want to criticize the veteran holding the flag on the 18th green they have the right.  But that doesn't mean they are right.  Sir.

        Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

        by thestructureguy on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 06:14:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But was there really that much of that? (3+ / 0-)

          Or are the Reaganites just telling us so?  And do you ever get the feeling (as I often do) that the Oligarchy is using that sense of guilt toward their own ends?  If supporting the policies is considered to be part and parcel of supporting the troops, then what?

          The '60s were simply an attempt to get the 21st Century started early; don't mistake an unfulfilled dream for a lost one. A dream has no deadline!

          by Panurge on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 07:47:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I really don't think there was that much of (0+ / 0-)

            it in reality but it was played up on TV with all the antiwar protesters. There was a real backlash after Vietnam and well before Reagan on the way the troops were looked upon.  If you think support for troops coming back now with PTSD is bad it was non-existent after Vietnam. There were no parades for them and absolutely no recognition for the sacrifices they made. Everyone ignored the troops because the war was so unpopular.  

            Everything is not some conspiracy by our overlords.

            Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

            by thestructureguy on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 08:05:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  It's not just the guy on the 18th green (4+ / 0-)

          It's the way it's permeating every athletic event.

          I can't just treat the golf tournament as if it's happening in a vacuum.

          If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

          by Major Kong on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 11:24:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Perhaps you're correct Colonel. The military pilot (0+ / 0-)

            for one has been glorified in media since WWI. He's been romanticized in movies, TV and print media and I've never understood why.  All that crap about having the "Right Stuff".  Even up until today a lot of airline pilots have that aww shucks voice when announcing to the cabin.  Chuck Yeager wanna be's.  I chuckle every time I hear it.  The movie Bridges Over Toko-Ri and an episode in MASH addressed the pilot's disengagement from the battle field.  The pilots would fly sorties out of Japan to bomb some village or bridge and then be back in time for happy hour at the O club.  Totally removed from the death and destruction they would reign upon solider and civilian alike.  I heard the Buff's were especially hated by the Vietnamese  because the couldn't see them or hear them. Don't get me wrong I have the greatest of respect for pilots because of their professionalism.  And it does take a certain kind of bravery to fly into an area where they are shooting telephone polls at you and knowing the treatment they would receive if captured.  Lance Sijan is one of my hero's.

            We do tend to glorify our warriors and it's just not we as Americans.  From the ancient Greeks to the tales of medieval knights we've placed them on pedestals. And perhaps the current "honoring" of our soldiers is our collective guilt for pushing them to the limits but I think it's a far cry from an endorsement of a military society and comparing it to some Soviet propaganda ploy insults the troops and demeans the intentions of the people trying to let them know we care about them.  Sir.

            Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

            by thestructureguy on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 09:13:31 AM PDT

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        •  I would think caddying would not be an honor. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          greengemini, crankycurmudgeon

          I did it for money.   Young adults do it for money.

          My concern is the insistence on wearing combat dress in civilian environments. A bit off topic, but part of the creepiness is the imagery of killer costumes amongst us.

          I know it makes flag/general officers feel they're too sexy for their dress uniforms. (Yes, you, McPeak.)  Fashion envy at its finest.  Their rationale was: 'if you dress like a warrior, you'll think like a warrior.'  So they could waltz around wearing flight utility suits in the Pentagon, and BDU's to Congress.

          After a combat tour, the problem is to STOP thinking like a warrior. To feel safe, out of danger.  Being forced to wear killing costumes off the battlefield is not conducive to relaxing and standing down your guard.

          Having everyone wear them on a daily basis surrounds returning troops with the visual cues of still being on the battlefield.  Thinking like a warrior.  AKA PTSD.

          Service dress uniforms, like the mess system, serve more than one purpose.  But the Dominionist cabal who own our military aren't familiar enough with the subtleties of leadership.  

          Joy shared is doubled. Pain shared is halved. Spider Robinson

          by nolagrl on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 07:53:00 AM PDT

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      •  More than a bit creepy..... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greengemini

        Appalling.
        We are the new Soviet Union. Or Victorian England.  In either case, our Empire is in retreat.

        I escaped after 17. Retired as a Major.

        Joy shared is doubled. Pain shared is halved. Spider Robinson

        by nolagrl on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 07:36:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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