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View Diary: Let's take back the Democratic Party from the Clinton-Obama machine! (173 comments)

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  •  DUKAKIS? You're pegging *Dukakis* as a (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Noodles, shaharazade

    progressive? or even as a liberal? That makes it hard for me to continue to read your comment, actually, because the credibility sweeps away like the gulf coast under a rip tide.

    And the "winning coalition" never sits on their hands or talks of withholding support? Uh, what is Harry Reid doing on filibuster reform? What did the Blue Dogs do practically every goddamned day in their dealings with leadership?

    For someone who "understands the importance of winning Congress" you don't pay a lot of attention to Congress.

    Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 08:00:30 AM PDT

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    •  Dukakis was/is a progressive (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      amyzex, sebastianguy99

      He was monotonous and mild mannered, but in what way was he not progressive?

      As a governor and presidential nominee he supported abortion rights and  supported gun control. He wasn't afraid to raise taxes to close budget deficits as governor and refused to rule them out as a presidential candidate. He stood up for the rights of non-believers and others to not be forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance. He even opposed the the death penalty, even for the hypothetical murderer/rapist of his wife. His problem was the he ran away from the label until very late in the 88 campaign.

      •  So what you're saying is that the American public (0+ / 0-)

        paid attention to the policy decisions Dukakis made as governor rather than the way he presented himself on the campaign trail, as the foundation for whether or not they decided to vote for him.

        I sure wish that were true, and I'd love to live in that world. Dozens of campaigns later, I know it just ain't so.

        Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 09:13:10 AM PDT

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        •  No, I am not saying that at all (0+ / 0-)

          They were for the most part distracted by the Bush smear campaign (Willie Horton, Flag burning, pledge of allegiance, Taxachusetts etc.). Dukakis didn't help himself by being too slow in responding in kind and not being vigorous enough when he did.

          •  Well, this whole discussion is about electability (0+ / 0-)

            and whether or not liberals (or progressives, I guess) are electable.

            Dukakis tried to make himself look more conservative than he was so he could win a campaign. He lost. Mostly not so much because he was portrayed by Bush as liberal, but because 1)he was boring and uncharismatic, and 2)he didn't stand up for his beliefs.

            He did not run as a liberal, far from it. Since we're talking about elections, that's what counts. Unless you think that the people carefully look over a guy's policy history when voting to determine whether the guy is really liberal or conservative, what counts is how he presents himself in the campaign. He did not present himself as a liberal until about Oct. 31st.  After denying it for months.

            By that time, people had just decided he was a weenie with no convictions who would say anything to get elected.

            Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 10:22:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Or Gore or Kerry? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SouthernLiberalinMD

      Sebastian has zero credibility.  

      Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion. An activist seeks to change opinion.

      by Mindful Nature on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 09:32:57 AM PDT

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      •  I listed all that lost. But I guess that is false (0+ / 0-)

        McGovern ran to the Left and was beaten. Yet here that losing coalition comes trying to sell us the stuff that didn't sell before and allowed the Republicans 40 years of dominating the political conservation.

        And anyone who believes that during those 40+ years that the country was dying to elect someone to the left of all those candidates, but chose to go right with Republicans, has zero credibility.

        The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

        by sebastianguy99 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 04:01:48 PM PDT

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