Skip to main content

View Diary: What If Zimmerman Is Acquitted? (208 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Georgie should be convicted based on the 911 (11+ / 0-)

    call where the operator tells Zimmerman not to follow Martin.

    Notice: This Comment © 2013 ROGNM

    by ROGNM on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 07:15:17 AM PDT

    •  Not exactly what GZ was told. (13+ / 0-)

      Operator was not allowed to "give orders" which comes with liability so said "we don't need you to do that" meaning to follow TM.

      •  I believe she asked him to stay in the car (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        historys mysteries, corvo, hnichols

        but she couldn't order him to do so.

        in any case, not being a police officer, it doesn't matter.

        Lots of things don't matter, apparently, including lack of Z's DNA on Martin's hands and clothes.

        Why do I feel like the prosecution hasn't exactly put their back into this?

        Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 07:30:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No. (7+ / 0-)

          The dispatcher never told him to stay in the car.

          To you, I'm an atheist. To God, I'm the loyal opposition.” ― Woody Allen

          by soros on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 07:42:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Nor does it matter. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            auapplemac, UbuRoi, Be Skeptical

            Zimmerman is on trial for murder. Getting out of a car, even if a 911 operator told you to stay in the car, is not murder. It doesn't even prove you intended to commit murder.

            I think Zimmerman is likely to be acquitted. Has anyone proven Trayvon didn't swing first? Not that I know of. There has been conflicting testimony on whether it was Trayvon or Zimmerman yelling for help in the 911 tape. Sounds like reasonable doubt to me.

            Please don't think I'm in any way praising or excusing Zimmerman. I'm not.

            "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

            by HeyMikey on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 01:48:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  It's a wonder why TM's voice remains silent.... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          hnichols, white blitz, 3goldens, retLT

          ...in the court. I can't imagine why the Prosecution hasn't played a video of TM with his voice so the jury can at least have samples of both voices. The 911 recording doesn't sound at all like the same voice as GZ. If that's TM's voice calling for help it would be the only evidence I can see that would indicate the malevolent intention on the part of GZ and time necessary to have murdered with intent that justifies a conviction.

          GZ is such a pathetic man. The judge will have the opportunity either way to speak for the public who have all had to look at GZ and the misery and senseless loss he has caused for so many people. She needs to call him out for what he is, an irresponsible, stupid, dangerous man from whom communities need to be protected. He's a type. There are plenty of other lethal and irrational GZs out there. And whatever message is given it needs to be clear.

          •  kck - "the judge"? (6+ / 0-)

            The prosecution represents the people and can do what you suggest regarding the state's view of GZ and why he needs to be sent to prison. The judge cannot say anything that could in any way be viewed as prejudicial to the defendant, who is presumed innocent. It would cause an immediate mistrial.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 08:37:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  A terrified screaming person usually (7+ / 0-)

            Sounds nothing like their speaking voice.

            The state likely has no recordings of Trayvon screaming like his life were threatened. Why would they?

            Outgoing voicemail recordings probably sound  like "Heeyy, this is Trayyy.." Or whatever, like most of us record  on our phones probably have a relaxed deep voice that doesn't sound the same at all.

            (That's why it's absolutely absurd that GZ's friends were allowed to testify that they know his terrified screaming voice based on his speaking voice without explaining how they've heard the former.)

            There are usually good reasons when evidence that you assume is easily available is not introduced: not because it's corrupted or because that side is hiding something but often because it would muddy the waters further.

            The problem for GZ is that he was out giving interviews, so those get to be admitted for different reasons.

            © grover


            So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

            by grover on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 09:13:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And that's where it doesn't matter (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Dr Swig Mcjigger, auapplemac

              that George says the screaming doesn't sound like himself. (Ok that seems fairly damning). Have you ever heard a recording of yourself? Oh my I sound nothing like I sound to myself. My voice seems so much higher pitched. No wonder people on the phone mistake me for a child. It's very hard for me to believe I really sound like that.

              •  I do think its strange that George wouldnt (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                white blitz

                Know what his Voice on a recording sounds like. I can recognize my recorded voice, even though, as you say, it sounds a lot higher pitched. I've heard my voice recorded enough to recognize it.

                I wonder if George knew he had not been screaming, so why would he think that were himself? Until, of course, the public pressure made the cops actually investigate this case...

                © grover


                So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

                by grover on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 10:02:41 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  equity (0+ / 0-)

              Of course voices sound different with different emotions, pitches, motivations, etc. If a computer analysis is unattainable an untrained human ear will be unreliable. However, Zimmerman's voice is present for the jury.

              People, maybe the jury, are earnestly trying to glean whatever useful information is in that 911 recording. There is a process of ruling out that's just as important as identifying whose voice it is. Different voices are discreet to different degrees. A woman's voice vs. a man's, an adult vs. a child. Can Zimmerman v. Martin be discerned? Maybe. Probably not. But it at least provides the jury with the same level of familiarity with the two voices rather than Zimmerman's voice and silence.

              •  Maybe. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kck, auapplemac

                That high pitch voice sounds like a child. I prefer the emptiness of a boy/young msn's voice than filling it with something that might muddle things. If Trayvon had a deeper voice, it's a good call. We don't know.

                It's strategy.

                © grover


                So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

                by grover on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 10:06:03 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  And that is EXACTLY (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SouthernLiberalinMD, auapplemac

          what my fiance said just yesterday.  It does rather seem that way, as much as I don't want to see it all play out that way.

          I almost don't want the trial to end.  I'm afraid of the outcome should GZ be acquitted.  I am truly frightened about that possibility.

          Let me explain the order of things to you. There's the aristocracy, the upper class, the middle class, working class, dumb animals, waiters, creeping things, head lice, people who eat packet soup, then you. -- Gareth Blackstock, Chef!

          by avamontez on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 09:33:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Me too. (0+ / 0-)

            The idea has been put forth of organizing some action ahead of time in case verdict goes badly.

            I think that might be a good idea. It could channel the anger into constructive things to do, like challenging the court system on a much wider basis (let's face it both our LE and our judiciary is messed up). But I also feel (perhaps wrongly) that white people should not be the ones leading that effort. It feels inappropriate.  More than willing to work on any effort organized however--just tell me where to show up & what you all need.

            Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 10:06:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  You need to focus on the evidence that was (13+ / 0-)

      presented to the jury.  The 911 operator, Sean Noffke, testified early in the trial, called by the prosecution to identify the tape.  He also said two things:

       (1) he did not tell Zimmerman to do anything.  They can't tell people to do anything, because if people do it, and something goes wrong, that can make the 911 dispatch liable.  So, his statement to Zimmerman about following, "We don't need you to do that," was a suggestion.

      (2) He identified the two times he asked Zimmerman where Martin was or what Martin was doing.  He said that he did not mean it as a suggestion that Zimmerman go to see where Martin was or what he was doing, but he can see how Zimmerman might have taken it that way.  

      •  Actually 911 dispatchers tell callers ... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askyron, Tonedevil

        to do things all the time.

        One of the statements contained within Medical Priority Dispatch protocol instructions says 'do it now and come back to me'.

        So that can't tell people what to do is not entirely correct.

        Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

        by emsprater on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 01:58:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It is "correct" in this case, because that's what (0+ / 0-)

          the expert reported.

          It’s the Supreme Court, stupid! Followed by: It's always the Supreme Court! Progressives will win only when we convince a majority that they, too, are Progressive.

          by auapplemac on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 02:19:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  That was not the testimony at trial. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VClib

          And for purposes of this case, the testimony at trial matters.  The witness  -- Sean Noffke -- was called by the prosecution, so obviously if it were true that he could give directions to people who called, and that they were supposed to follow those directions, the prosecution would have made sure he testified to that.  He did not.  

          Perhaps the difference is that the person who testified at trial was a non-emergency operator?  

          •  Have you ever been in a call center? (0+ / 0-)

            The call takers and dispatchers ( not always interchangeable) all take both 911 and NEN calls.  Only trainees who are not 'cleared' for all calls take only non emergency calls.  Sometimes the person who is dispatching the fire truck or the police car or the ambulance to your home is also actively taking a 911 call.

            Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

            by emsprater on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 02:27:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Wasn't it an NEN number Zimmerman called? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coffeetalk, VClib

          Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

          by Pi Li on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 02:23:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site