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View Diary: (Corporatist?) Obama administration takes aim at big lenders' shady debt collection practices (160 comments)

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  •  Would you give a prison sentence based on %? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    duhban

    "Hey, you're prison sentence is longer because you are younger".

    That makes no sense.

    "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

    by shrike on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 02:26:10 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Where in the hell did you get that?! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      triv33, Methinks They Lie

      You make up words the person never said and then accuse them of saying what YOU accused them of saying?!  Try to learn how to argue without behaving like this.

      "A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more." - from the prophet Jeremiah

      by 3goldens on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 03:00:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Straw man argument. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      triv33, grollen, nchristine, TracieLynn

      The original point is relevant: if the punishment is a monetary fine, and the fine is less than the profit derived from the criminal act, then it is a simple business decision to ignore the law and accept the fine.

      No one is talking about prison time based on age, except you.

      Aussie2 is simply being realistic in making an assumption that any enforcement mechanism by the CFPB will be based on fines, and historically such fines have not been a real deterrent.

      •  Goldman was fined $550 million by Obama. (4+ / 0-)

        That is not straw at all.  It was a big part of their earnings.

        It is the largest fine ever for a Wall Street firm.

        Yet no one proved a thing against them.

        Also, there have been many billions of dollars in civil awards against the big banks.  Geithner took billions from the big banks in fines and interest.   How much?  At least $30 billion.

        I know this shit better than anyone here.

        "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

        by shrike on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 03:24:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wow. At $63,000 per minute in revenue, that fine (4+ / 0-)

          will take Goldman about six days to pay off.

          (That figure is based revenues from the last quarter of 2012.)

          Yeah, I'm pretty sure that will act as a huge deterrent in the future.

          You might also want to look up the definition of "straw man argument." You don't seem to understand what it is.

          You might also want to recognize that you are proving Aussie2's point: when a firm is willing to accept such a "large" fine, without anyone proving guilt, it is because they recognize such a fine as a win in their playbook.

        •  "I know this shit better than anyone here." (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Roger Fox

          Well I guess we can all go home now. It has been declared therefore it must be!

          •  Try me. Geithner hit the banks hard and I have (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ian Reifowitz, Larsstephens

            the figures.  I don't believe Firebagger myth either.  

            (NOT calling you one - not calling anyone here one!  But they are here.)

            "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

            by shrike on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 04:05:35 PM PDT

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            •  You know what? I'll give it to ya. You know the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nchristine

              numbers better than I do. But here's the deal, they are fines.

              NO ONE, not one of the white-gloved billionaire banksters have gone to jail. NONE.

              I remember back during the S&L scandal (yeah I'm dating myself) bankers went to jail over that.

              What has happened since then? Complete. Regulatory. Capture is the term.

              These sociopathic cokeheads get to raid pension funds, crash the world largest economy, and force untold numbers of older workers to cancel their retirement, and all that happens is that their billionaire banks are fined millions while they get to stay on and TAKE FRIGGIN' BONUSES for doing it. I don't give a rat's ass about fines. And neither do the bankers. They blow that off as easily as an 8 ball of coke on a Friday night.

              •  OK, let us step back. Wall St banks didn't fuck (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Larsstephens

                up the economy like the S&L's mildly did back in the 80s.

                It was the RETAIL banks issuing all those bad mortgages!

                Who are they?

                Countrywide, WaMu, IndyMac, Golden West/Wachovia, and hundreds of others that were on MAIN Street.

                This is counter intuitive - but the Wall Street banks were STUPID enough to buy that bad paper!!!!!!

                That is why Lehman and Bear and Merrill Lynch went bankrupt.

                "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

                by shrike on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 04:30:59 PM PDT

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                •  But Goldman didn't. Nor BofA..... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Roger Fox, TracieLynn

                  And we're going to differ on this:

                  This is counter intuitive - but the Wall Street banks were STUPID enough to buy that bad paper!!!!!!
                  I wouldn't say they were "stupid enough", I would say they were greedy enough. They knew this was shit. They knew it and they sold it up the chain because there was enough foreign cash out there to buy it, they had the ratings agencies bought and sold KNOWINGLY rating these shit investments as AAA and then, and here's the kicker, people like Goldman Sachs purchased insurance betting that these MBS' would fail (because they knew they would because they knew they were shit).

                  When Greenspan was asked to explain the CDS system and he replied he didn't understand it the curtain was lifted back briefly on this house of cards. "Retail" vs. Wall Street means nothing in the Glass Steagalless era. The financial sector has had its chance to run itself without meaningful regulation. Look what happened. Wall Street has proven itself incapable of checking itself. It's not in their DNA.

                  So we must do it for them. And fines WON'T DO IT. Jail time (and REAL jail time, not some country club white collar "jail") might, and I mean might, get the message across.

                  Though with these psychos I doubt anything can convince them to behave ethically and morally. Their track record speaks for itself.

              •  Investors lost 1 billion get paid back 250 million (0+ / 0-)

                http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/...

                 The deal lost investors $1 billion but produced $1 billion in profits for Goldman's collaborator, Oregon-based Paulson & Company, a hedge fund betting the housing bubble would collapse.

                .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

                by Roger Fox on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 05:02:37 PM PDT

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              •  He doesn't know the numbers nearly as well (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                TracieLynn

                as he thinks he does. $550m is about 18 days' profit (not revenue) for Goldman Sachs, as of 2012. As "deterrents" go, that's about as piss-poor as they come.

                And his assertion that Wall Street banks didn't f**k up the economy (below) is pure, unadulterated historical revisionism.

                "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

                by Australian2 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 05:23:23 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  $550 million is about 1/15 (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TracieLynn

          of Goldman Sachs' 2012 profits.....three and one-half weeks' profits, give or take. And that's assuming that they don't go the whole hog and just call it an expense, cutting their tax burden to partially offset it.

          Yeah, that'll be a real good deterrent for melting down the economy, Mr. "I know this shit". Judging by your posts, what you know about finance and Wall Street would fit on a thimble.....with room to spare.

          Also, mind telling me where this line came from?

          "Hey, you're prison sentence is longer because you are younger".

          That makes no sense.

          It's a complete non sequitur from my original post.

          "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

          by Australian2 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 05:20:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Whoa. I think you replied to the wrong comment? (0+ / 0-)

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