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View Diary: For every "illegal" worker there is an illegal employer hiring and paying them (34 comments)

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  •  I'm sure with some that is the motivation. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But if you need to hire 300 people to pick fruit all day, you are not likely going to be able to find documented Americans willing to do that. Often companies hire the undocumented out of necessity. In any event, as a progressive, I know that these people and their families within a generation or two create well educated, entrepreneurial workers who add to our countries economy and tax base. The concept that these immigrants are a drag on society is a myth.

    •  No, you're not likely to find (3+ / 0-)
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      Tweedledee5, 88kathy, IT Professional

      Americans willing to work for less than minimum wage. Because they have to live here and make enough to live on.

      Many undocumented workers return home with the money they've made where the cost of living is far less.  I'm not blaming them, but the employer is making the choice to pay a shitty wage over a living wage because it benefits the employer.

      Money doesn't talk it swears.

      by Coss on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 03:41:41 PM PDT

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    •  Incomplete thought: (4+ / 0-)
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      Coss, Tweedledee5, 88kathy, Kevskos
      you are not likely going to be able to find documented Americans willing to do that
      For so little money and no benefits.
      If growers and motels and office cleaners paid a living wage and some basic safety net, more white peo... I mean American Citizens would line up for the jobs.
      But because the employers can turn to a ready workforce that is in the shadows and can be abused without risk, they can get away with paying wages so low their fulltime employees qualify for food stamps. Or would if they were documented.

      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

      by CwV on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 03:46:21 PM PDT

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      •  Look, a fruit grower can keep increasing (0+ / 0-)

        wages until he gets enough documented workers to show up and do the job. But it would be a very significant amount, and that would result in two things: much higher costs for consumers at market and an inability to compete with imports. The best solution IMO is to allow people who are poor and desperate for work to get the job they covet, and to let those who would refuse such work to go try to find something better. As a progressive, I'd rather see the most desperate families helped, and I'd rather that poor Americans not be priced out of buying low-cost fruits and vegetables for their children.

      •  I remember John McCain saying (3+ / 0-)
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        Tweedledee5, Kevskos, IT Professional

        something to the effect at Americans wouldn't pick lettuce for $80 an hour. I mean what a flipping jackass. I find that to be a backhanded racist comment. Its not that the work is "below" Americans, it's that the pay is not worth doing the work if you have to live in this economy.

        Money doesn't talk it swears.

        by Coss on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 03:59:54 PM PDT

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    •  I can get you 301 ex-Cons, trailer park and Ghetto (2+ / 0-)
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      Tweedledee5, Kevskos

      ... folks who would love to do any job that will hire them.

      Go into the ghetto, lots of unemployed there.
      Go to a trailer park, lots of unemployed there.
      Go to the exit gate of a prison, lots of unemployed there.

      Back in the day, that's exactly where we used to get those migrant workers. My uncle, between his undergrad and law school - "dropped out" of the system for a year and went off to be a migrant farm worker in the 50s. As a Mexican - American he was unusual for NOT being white or black and not being a felon... A decade later he would have fit right in, and so he joined Ceaser Chavez's folks.

      But we've changed the game.

      Today we use the white trash of the trailer park as prison guards to hold the black and latino youths of the ghetto away - making one set too stupid to vote in their interests and the other having no right to vote... and then we import people illegally to do the jobs our still-existing underclass used to do, because their rights can more easily be ignored.

      •  Prove it. (0+ / 0-)

        Doc2 may be saying some pretty stupid things, but we also done some experiments to prove he's not crazy.

        Atlanta Journal-Constitution: Ga’s farm-labor crisis playing out as planned

        After enacting House Bill 87, a law designed to drive illegal immigrants out of Georgia, state officials appear shocked to discover that HB 87 is, well, driving a lot of illegal immigrants out of Georgia.

        It might be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

        Thanks to the resulting labor shortage, Georgia farmers have been forced to leave millions of dollars’ worth of blueberries, onions, melons and other crops unharvested and rotting in the fields. It has also put state officials into something of a panic at the damage they’ve done to Georgia’s largest industry.

        Barely a month ago, you might recall, Gov. Nathan Deal welcomed the TV cameras into his office as he proudly signed HB 87 into law. Two weeks later, with farmers howling, a scrambling Deal ordered a hasty investigation into the impact of the law he had just signed, as if all this had come as quite a surprise to him.

        Crooks and Liars: Alabama Harvests the Bitter Fruit of Its Harsh New Immigration Laws: Tomatoes Dying On the Vine
        People warned Alabamans that if they went ahead and passed their own version of anti-immigrant legislation, they would suffer similar economic consequences. But they did it anyway. Now, the state's anti-immigration laws -- which involve using schoolchildren as proxies for enforcement -- are easily the most draconian and vicious anti-immigrant laws in the country.

        And guess what? They are now paying the price. Not only are the schools suddenly emptying of Latino children, more tellingly, the state's tomato farmers are in crisis because there's no one available to harvest the fruit. And the authors of the legislation are just telling them, "tough luck":

            STEELE, Ala. -- A sponsor of Alabama's tough new immigration law told desperate tomato farmers Monday that he won't change the law, even though they told him that their crops are rotting in the field and they are at risk of losing their farms.

            Republican state Sen. Scott Beason of Gardendale met with about 50 growers, workers, brokers and business people Monday at a tomato packing shed on Chandler Mountain in northeast Alabama. They complained that the new law, which went into effect Thursday, scared off many of their migrant workers at harvest time.

        But it looks like we have a solution:

        Forbes: The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires

        To forgo a repeat of last year, when labor shortages triggered an estimated $140 million in agricultural losses, as crops rotted in the fields, officials in Georgia are now dispatching prisoners to the state’s farms to help harvest fruit and vegetables.

        -7.75 -4.67

        "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

        There are no Christians in foxholes.

        by Odysseus on Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 06:37:27 PM PDT

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