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View Diary: BREAKING: The Guardian Reveals Microsoft's Close Collaboration with the NSA (366 comments)

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  •  Among other disquieting details, Skype was (22+ / 0-)

    purchased by Microsoft?  Guess I have been out of the loop..

     But as the diary comments, ever more disturbing and deeper details are seeping out. And always more to digest and process.
     The revelations about the actual nature of our government
    certainly make me lean towards voting "YES" on the current rec list diary that asks if we are heading to a totalitarian state.

    Excellent diary, and thanks to TFA

    •  They are not seeping (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dburn, phenry
      ever more disturbing and deeper details are seeping out

      They are deliberately and carefully being rationed out by Glenn Greenwald and his cohort at the Guardian. They are deciding which of the thousands of docs we will hear about, and what part of each doc, and when.

      “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

      by Catte Nappe on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 12:54:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ...which is a good thing. nt (12+ / 0-)

        “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

        by 420 forever on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 01:08:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  ooooh, spooky! (12+ / 0-)

        It's called 'journalistic responsibility', cattte nappe.

        That, plus it take time to do all the levels of work involved in publishing a story.  Here, you can learn a little about it --

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

      •  Riiiiiiight. NSA+rubberstamp FISA no problem. (11+ / 0-)

        GG? Nefarious and Very Dangerous...

        (PS GG is white!)

        The GOP says you have to have an ID to vote, but $ Millionaire donors should remain anonymous?

        by JVolvo on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 01:13:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not connected (0+ / 0-)
          NSA+rubberstamp FISA no problem
          NSA and FISA court big problems.
          Plus also too, Greenwald not the most reliable and trustworthy source to filter the information received from his not so reliable and trustworthy source.  

          I can manage to hold both thoughts at the same time, and maintain a high level of doubt and skepticism toward all parties involved.

          “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

          by Catte Nappe on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 01:46:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  And PS (0+ / 0-)
          (PS GG is white!)
          Yeah, I know. And so....?

          “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

          by Catte Nappe on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 02:39:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  But if they published all the documents at once (5+ / 0-)

        you wouldn't support that either, so, um, what's your point? Journalist is doing his job? You find that distasteful? Seriously, what?

        "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

        by Lost Left Coaster on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 01:32:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Better apply some windex (0+ / 0-)

          Your mind reading window is fogged up.

          Journalist is not doing his job if one thinks his job is to report the facts, in context. He is crafting "a narrative". It's more like a screen play than a news story so far.

          “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

          by Catte Nappe on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 01:55:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're not one of those people who (11+ / 0-)

            thinks journalism is about being "objective" are you? Sort of the "some say" school that totally dominates the Washington Media Establishment. You know how it goes:

            "Some say the sky is blue."

            "Some say the sky is yellow."

            "We don't take a position here at Objective News. We just report the facts. And it is a fact that some have said things."

            •  No (0+ / 0-)

              I generally find reality consists of multiple shades of gray. Telling a story objectively does require at least some mention of any significant dispute, but certainly not giving equal weight unless there is in fact an essentially equal balance of fact/opinion on each side.  Sort of "most of us see the sky is blue when we look out the window most mornings, and 99.9% of scientists agree that is because of the way color is reflected. There have been some visible vocal demonstrations at the local university from a small group calling themselves the Yolks, who insist that the sky is yellow"

              “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

              by Catte Nappe on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 02:37:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah, that's pretty much in keeping with modern (5+ / 0-)

                media coverage. That's why its so awful.

                Im more of this school:

                "The sky is blue. This is true both no matter if you consult science or common sense" according to Dr. Jones, climate scientist. Demonstrators, nevertheless, insisted without any factual evidence or even some observable anecdote, that the sky is yellow. The News confirmed that Dr. Jones is in fact correct. The sky is blue. Clearly, the demonstrators are either blind or insane."

                That's delivering it with accuracy and context.

          •  Crafting a narrative? (8+ / 0-)

            You mean, inventing? What do you think Greenwald has invented?

            Specifically, what do you think Greenwald has lied about? What lies are in his reporting?

            And if his facts are correct, then what is your problem, exactly? That he cares about this issue? That he's concerned with what the NSA is doing?

            Greenwald has a point of view. He has never hidden this fact from anyone. But his NSA stories are all backed up by documents. His stories are also vetted by the editors of the Guardian USA. Nevertheless, if you think he is making things up, I'm all ears for examples.

            And if you just don't like the way he goes about doing his business, well, I'm sure he would be very upset to know that. As for me, I have learned a great deal from journalists like Greenwald, or Amy Goodman, or any of the others over the years who have a strong point of view but are also committed to bringing the facts to light.

            "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

            by Lost Left Coaster on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 02:42:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Crafting a narrative is not lying (0+ / 0-)

              While creative, it is not "invention" in the sense of making shit up.  It is the art of selecting which facts to include or exclude, which to emphasize or de-emphasize, deciding what order things are presented in; in order to leave a particular impression or conclusion.

              I'm quite sure Greenwald couldn't care less what I think about him. However, my opinion of how he goes about his business is just as valid as yours in a forum where we are discussing the reporting he is doing. I understand your appreciation for his (and others') strong points of view. I am certainly aware of those points of view, and take them into account in evaluating the "narrative" I am hearing. To do otherwise is to become a left version of a Limbaugh fan who wants to have preconceived ideas fed and nurtured.

              “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

              by Catte Nappe on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 03:05:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What important facts have been excluded? (6+ / 0-)

                I am just trying to hear more specifics. I know a lot of people find that Greenwald's personality and some of his habits (like responding in kind to people who are rude to him on twitter) rub them the wrong way. That's fine, of course. But I would love to know why people discount what he says, just because he is the one who says it.

                Of course we should always apply critical thinking -- I certainly don't agree with everything Greenwald has said in his commentary -- but I'm still not convinced that there are any fundamental problems with his reporting on the NSA story.

                "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

                by Lost Left Coaster on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 03:09:39 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Guardian editors are vetting with NSA, too (4+ / 0-)

              as they stated in a Charlie Rose interview recently.

              This is called 'responsible journalism', catttte napppe, and I gave you a link to read so you could understand it a little better.

              The kind of 'journalism' that you described is Faux News reporting (widely practiced by the MSM), as brooklynbadboy pointed out to you.

          •  ... (7+ / 0-)
            So much for Objective Journalism. Don't bother to look for it here — not under any byline of mine; or anyone else I can think of. With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.
            --Hunter Thompson

            Why do you hate America?

            by nota bene on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 03:09:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  So are you saying ... (9+ / 0-)

        that they ought to just "dump thousands of classified documents on the internet" without carefully reading and selecting what is newsworthy?

        Isn't that what everyone was hating on Bradley Manning for?  Seems like you're setting up a lose-lose proposition here.

        “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

        by jrooth on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 01:51:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nope, not saying that (0+ / 0-)

          Unfortunately the "whistle blower" didn't carefully select what would provide necessary information to give the overall picture of his concerns; so of necessity the reporters he dumped thousands of docs on are certainly having to do it for him.  So they should have taken time to digest it all, put it in context, and decide which docs would most effectively back up the story without endangering anyone's security. Big responsibility, but there it is. And I'm not interested in just what's "newsworthy", because some of the necessary facts and context are no doubt pretty dry, boring and mundane.

          “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

          by Catte Nappe on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 02:00:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So you're saying they should have given us (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VeloDramatic

            one enormous indigestible lump a year from now

            instead of more-digestible, but still complex, smaller bits beginning in June that will run for months, with each bit providing the impetus for huge national (American) and international reactions/responses

            and if the Guardian and the Washington Post had done that

            you'd be okay with that.

            Is that what you're saying?

      •  Just like every journalist at every major paper (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Free Agent, katiec

        The other approach would be the Wikileaks method of just releasing everything...which I don't necessarily oppose, but would that provoke a more favorable reaction from Greenwald critics? Hmmm I wonder...

    •  Skype has been insecure since mid 2012 (7+ / 0-)

      http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/...

      Skype used to be a P2P app, that created it's own supernodes among the populace to help shepherd traffic and keep things moving.

      As of June 2012, Microsoft moved those servers internally.  Given the news about PRISM, it's pretty clear that Skype is being monitored - they have all the supernodes thus all traffic. All your traffic is encrypted, but the supernodes see all - kind of like the trunk traffic that's snooped by splicing into the fiber lines by NSA/etc.

      The reasons given were for performance/stability but it's clear now that the big mover was PRISM.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting

      by sacrelicious on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 02:22:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It was before Microsoft bought it (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        J M F, sacrelicious

        That Skype started participating in PRISM. According to the article in the Guardian Eric Holder sent an order to comply on February 4th of 2011. Collections began the next day.

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